Women who forget not everyone has access to money from men

[windygallows]

With 34.5% of the population aged over 16 in England ‘single and not cohabiting’ (2015 stats), it’s clear that a significant number of women in the UK, many parents, are single and having to fend for themselves/live on one income.

Yet I'm amazed at the number of women who forget that not every woman has access to a second income from a partner. In fact the privilege of having access to another’s (usually a man’s) income is often naturalized and many women are, or become, totally oblivious to this privilege.

For example just this last week I experienced:

• A woman at work going on and on about the importance of her life/work balance and suggesting I drop my hours to have similar. She works just 2 days/week and seems to forget that such a setup is an absolute privilege, thanks to a husband who works FT.

• Another woman I know who is on quite a low salary bragging about her 3 luxury holidays per year, again thanks to the income from an IT Director husband. She thought she'd give me travel tips in case I wanted to go to the same 5star holiday.

There are a million reasons why women might have to rely on men’s income but I don’t think I ABU in asking women to recognize that their lifestyle and having access to men’s money isn’t the NORM for up to 1/3 of women, who are having to get by on their own accord and lack the same privilege or financial flexibility.

There are a million reasons why women might have to rely on men’s income but I don’t think I ABU in asking women to recognize that their lifestyle and having access to men’s money isn’t the NORM for up to 1/3 of women, who are having to get by on their own accord and lack the same privilege or financial flexibility.

YANBU for being frustrated by the thoughtless comments by the women you've described. However, YABU to hold an expectation that both men and women like the ones you describe, have the emotional intelligence to be more tactful and considerate with regards to discussing their financial achievements & purchases that fund their lifestyles.

I say this to be kind and not critical or judgemental, please focus on building your emotional resilience so that you can ignore these people and their comments. You are doing the best that you can and living within your means.

Its always the man's money-thats why women end up pensionless and poor in old age when they get left for a younger model. Value your independence: wirth its weight in gold.

I agree with your sentiment that people shouldn't just assume that others are in a similar financial situation to themselves.

But I do think you're vastly overestimating the % of women that are single parents. People without kids are far more likely to be single and not cohabiting than people with kids.

It in only on here that I hear such bullshit about women spouting out about other women. With the same argument being dragged up.

I have never had anyone say to me I have no self respect, or I am foolish because i choose to stay at home with my child. It only seems to be bitter, nasty women on here.

I never assume a women is privileged enough to have a man at home who funds their glorious lifestyle.

I do however know women with lovely husbands and they both work and can't afford 3 holidays a year in a 5star hotel, so it has nothing to do with having a man at home

Some people, men, women, couples, singletons will sometimes have a better life than you. If you are the type to be envious of others, you will find them all through your life.

My advice would be concentrate on you and making your life as happy as possible. Not what others around you are doing.

I am privileged to be able to plan my life without too much worry about money.
My self respect doesn't come from working, although I prefer working to not, I myself and worthy of respect regardless of my income generating capacity.
But my DH is also privileged, he gets to have a family life and a career. He doesn't have to stress about picking DC up from anything, dropping them off to anything. He has no worries about food, cooking or shopping, making sure he has paid the bills for the month, cleaned the house, mowed the lawn, done the washing etc, etc.
He was able to relocate abroad, knowing I would give up my job and start again in another country because it was best for the family.
This privilege isn't a one way street, it is based on partnership that benefits a whole family. We aren't better than single parent families or families with non working parents we are just different.

Some people really don’t have a clue.
I think the problem is that if you've not experienced a situation yourself, and you're not aware of friends or family experiencing it, then it's easy to forget that it exists or to really appreciate how it feels. No-one really goes along in life imagining every possible scenario - you stick to broadly what you know personally with some thought about other stuff that comes up (on Mumsnet!). So your initial reaction may be a bit to others just the same as you might think that of them about something else.

Surely this is just basic common sense? I mean, I have married friends who I know aren’t in the same income bracket as us, so I wouldn’t be telling them, “Oh just fly to x hotel in Bora Bora - it’s wonderful,” because that would be crass and ridiculous.

I don’t work but I can imagine in an office environment, sometimes people are just talking about their holidays or something to make conversation, but not in an arrogant way. It’s like when you go to the hairdressers and they always ask, “Got any holidays planned?” Nobody can really presume anything as to other people’s finances and mainly people just don’t care anyway.

Especially in the creative field you often hear women talk about "doing what you love" and getting out of the 9-5 to be artists or selling handmade... In reality though it's a lot easier to do that if you have a partner to share the household costs with, especially as many have a partner who supports them when they are SAHM and do their art on the side...

I work in a creative field and see this a lot. A lot of women reducing their hours and claiming everyone 'should do what they love' by setting up a cake baking business or making lavender soap or becoming 'a consultant' knowing they can take the risk because they have a husband who is a hedge fund manager. To be fair most of the arts sector is poorly paid so actually reliant on people having partners who make more by comparison.

Crickey, there are some real superior nobheads on this thread ...

DH and I earn about the same (I earn a tiny amount more). There have been times over the years when I have earned much more than him and vice versa, depending on our family circumstance at the time.

I would hate if he had felt during those times that he didn't deserve to have any self-respect because he was benefitting from my salary, or that he was to be 'pitied'. I certainly didn't feel that way when it was the other way round.

Isn't this simply a case of human beings having a tendency to judge everything from their own perspective and experience? You see people doing that on here all the time about all sorts of situations.

Having said that, I have never lived with a partner and I do think that people who have grown accustomed to co-habiting underestimate the price premium of living in a one adult household. The relative living costs are definitely not halved but are probably more like at least 80% of those with two adults.

Years ago I racked up huge credit card bills because I was very ill and was off work for so long my employers sick pay ran out. I paid for rent, bills, food, everything, on credit for many months. A relation remarked disapprovingly how she had never owed more than £x amount of thousands on her credit card even though she had used it to support her through a degree. I had to point out that she also has a husband earning good money!

But the other side of the coin is that we have independence and self respect.

^^This
and
Relying financially on a man isn't privilege, but total and utter naivety. It's blind foolishness.

And This ^^

When me and my EX split when DS was 2 I was so on my arse, trying to pay a mortgage (ex wouldn't pay and we was not married), some weeks I lived of pasta with chopped tinned tomatoes so I could feed DS properly and just about scrap through bills. Ex screwed me over financially leaving me in loads of debt, I had baliffs at the door ended up having IVAs whilst he set up house elsewhere paying naff all, just to force me out of the house as soon as he found out (2 years after he left) that I started seeing someone else.

18 years later I made it through, I now part own the business that I have worked my way up through (after working part time there when DS was little and increasing hours as he got older). I am now married and we do pool our money into family pot BUT I am financially independent and the main breadwinner and I am so proud of myself (even if that is a bit braggy) because it may have taken years but I haven't had to rely on anyone financially and DH knows how important this independence is to me. I do still have a very old car and material stuff is not important to me because I know it can be lost just as easily as gained but I do like nice hols now.

I am sure people who do not know me probably think that is because I have a husband to live off or his income to rely on but that is not the case. In fact next year I will be reducing down my days and 1 of DH's family member has already commented - nice life if you can get it and must be lovely having someone support you BUT even if DH left tomorrow I have got myself to the point where it really wouldn't impact on my financially.

Don't judge others as you don't really know their circumstances and know that one day you will get past the tough times, they may come again as none of knows what will happen in life but equally those that seem to be living the high life now can just as easily fall.

You’re a peach, aren’t you?

If, by "peach", you mean been there, done that, suffered the consequences, seen it again and again in other women in real life and online, and would prefer no other women to experience such disruption and destruction ... then yes. I'm one enormous fucking peach.

🍑🍑🍑🍑🍑🍑

Yes very bizarre presenting this as a factual argument about gender. Sadly we live in a society where women are paid less for equivalent work and routinely excluded from the labour market around pregnancy. Social norms mean that women and men are more likely to assign care work to women meaning that we earn less and more sporadically when kids are young meaning we take a big career progression hit. I don't know how you're managing to reframe this as a privilege??

You are providing zero real evidence apart from two women who pissed you off. Are single parents more likely to have help from the state? How would your argument fly if it were to do with accessing the "public's money"?

The answer is just to socialise less with these people, surely?

Some horrible posts on here. I work PT and my husband earns a large salary. We do this for many reasons none of which are anyone elses business. I have independence and self respect. I work hard. I used to earn more than DH but when we had kids (one with SN) we made choices. Supporting my husband in his career has been stressful for long periods due to travel, working very long hours, always being on call, dealing with children alone during difficult times etc. I don't just doss about at home while he is at work there is always something keeping me busy other than my job. The money we both earn is our money - we share it equally as we both work as hard as each other but in different ways and we both respect that. I have many single parent friends and I know they work hard and finances can be tough but I don't think I have it "easier" than them and I'm sure they would agree!

You are just coming across as bitter op.

Chase your child’s father for maintenance.
Get yourself a second salary in the shape of a partner-lodger-contributor

You can hardly consider marriage a privilege for women! It is a privilege for both sides, raising children, earning money, caring for the home - wherever it is, it is a family contribution. The money is a product of jimt efforts. Marriages require work, love, and energy too so consider that one aspect you are not investing in.

"Access to a second income from partner"

It's not about access it's about sharing - I earn more than DH by quite a considerable way - I don't give him "access" we have a shared lifestyle.

But again Windy, what is it you actually want people to do? Not mention holidays or anything else involving money, simply because you’re a single mum? Wouldn’t that be odd? Do you think women should work for the sake of it even though they don’t need to and their husbands prefer them not to, just because some women on MN bang on about self-respect, ra ra ra?

Choice is a privileged and you have no idea if those that work or dont work or part time work have choice.
All i know is no one ever looked at a man who got promoted and was successful and said isnt he lucky some woman has halted her career to raise his children and run their home.

If you don't know that it is a privilege then you are blind to the many benefits, both financial and social, that a society that preferences marriage offers. Erm... I don't even know where to start with that!

But it does illustrate something....

She's not bitter at all?! What an odd assumption.
Most married women who go PT or are SAHM are screwed if their husbands leave. They DONT have financial independence because their position in the family unit often was the caregiving, homemaking one, which isnt financially rewarded. It has benefits as OP has stated, but can be highly risky as so many men cheat it either neans being left high and dry or stuck in a crap relationship.
Op when you are thinking about their access to a husband's salary you must also consider what they are sacrificing and what they are putting up with. I will be advising my daughter never to give up work in a relationship, though she will do what she pleases.

OP I get you. I’ve lost count of the number of colleagues and mums at the baby groups who have told me ‘oh, just go part time’ or ‘I could never have gone back to work before DC was 1/2/3/15’. I am the main earner in our family (though sometimes I wish I wasn’t) but it just never crosses their minds.

I haven’t experienced what you’re talking about OP but I agree with a lot of your points. This is why marriage and society is inherently misogynist - it’s set up for the woman to make all the sacrifices for having children. It stops women being financially independent. You can crow on about family money all you like, but if you didn’t earn it, if isn’t yours! I can’t imagine feeling anything but completely demoralised and ashamed if I had to rely on someone else for all my financial needs. I would never marry or give up work for this reason - everyone should be able to rely on themselves if they can. I don’t respect either men who want to be the provider and want a little wifey doing the woman’s work at home, or women who opt out of the labour market completely. You can’t make those choices completely freely in this society. It takes two people to make a child, parenting should be equal. Obviously people with health issues that prevent them from working are not included in that

of course YABU and sexist.

Having access to a trust fund is a privilege. Sharing finance with your partner has never prevented anyone to have independence and self-respect.

Gosh there are a lot of bitter posters on these threads.

Funny there are never any comment about SAHD, men who retrain, study, who start their own businesses whilst their wives keep paying the bills and so on.

YANBU. What windygallows said. I know at least 2 women who are freelance artists. Always smiling and full of vigour and vim and following their passion. Only able to because of their exhausted husbands falling through the door at 7pm every night from a full on corporate job. I'm a single mum with a pre school child and would love to be part time. I can't see a way to through. If someone could explain to me how, then please do as I would love that quality time with him in the last year before school.

Fucking hell, judgemental much?

What you have come across OP is a few people with a lack of self awareness, who don’t have the basic social skills to recognise your circumstances are different and keep their ‘advice’ to themselves.

But the comment on ‘access to a man’s money’ makes my blood boil. At points I’ve earned more, then we had three kids and I reduced my work to do more childcare as at that point it made economic sense, and still does.

DH can only do the job he does as I’m at home to enable it and be there for the kids. There will be a time soon where I go back and earn proper money again.

It’s not ‘a man’s money’. It’s family money which I have enabled (by contributing to the house and mortgage pre-kids, by providing round the clock childcare afterwards). It’s all a team effort over a period of decades.

Your characterisation is simply offensive to a swathe of women making perfectly conscious and necessary choices to balance work and family.

I’m also not sure if you think women with high earning husbands should only go on the holidays they can actually fund entirely themselves? And let their husbands have the holidays they ‘deserve’ as the higher earner?