Women who forget not everyone has access to money from men

[windygallows]

With 34.5% of the population aged over 16 in England ‘single and not cohabiting’ (2015 stats), it’s clear that a significant number of women in the UK, many parents, are single and having to fend for themselves/live on one income.

Yet I'm amazed at the number of women who forget that not every woman has access to a second income from a partner. In fact the privilege of having access to another’s (usually a man’s) income is often naturalized and many women are, or become, totally oblivious to this privilege.

For example just this last week I experienced:

• A woman at work going on and on about the importance of her life/work balance and suggesting I drop my hours to have similar. She works just 2 days/week and seems to forget that such a setup is an absolute privilege, thanks to a husband who works FT.

• Another woman I know who is on quite a low salary bragging about her 3 luxury holidays per year, again thanks to the income from an IT Director husband. She thought she'd give me travel tips in case I wanted to go to the same 5star holiday.

There are a million reasons why women might have to rely on men’s income but I don’t think I ABU in asking women to recognize that their lifestyle and having access to men’s money isn’t the NORM for up to 1/3 of women, who are having to get by on their own accord and lack the same privilege or financial flexibility.

@Babyfacemortified Council tax is not suppose to be the poll tax. It is however based on a mixture of the old rates system and the poll tax. The poll tax caused protests including riots.

50% of it is calculated on there being a property where council tax applies and the other 50% is calculated on there being at least 2 adults who are eligible to pay council tax in that property. So if there is only one adult who is deemed eligible to pay council tax they get a 25% discount as council tax still applies to that property.

I think there is a real issue with being in a couple being seen as the norm and a lack of understanding of the financial reality of single life, with or without children. A single person has to pay full costs for almost everything, whereas those in relationship have similar costs for rent, household bills etc as a single person. Even council tax which is discounted is only discounted by 25% for a single person which is very odd

Yup. But very few people in the couples bubble take any heed of this. As is clear from some of the responses to the OP.

Possibly one of the rudest comments I've seen on MN ever.

What's rude about it? You can't have a thread and gloat about being morally superior but complain if someone points out the flaws in your system.
There's not ONE ideal life for anyone, but looking down at others who are making different choices is just a bit sad don't you think.

who are having to get by on their own accord

Why are you acting as if we women are victims and struggling and this is some huge tragedy to be supporting yourself with one income? Men and women are equally responsible/capable of supporting themselves. Women aren't suddenly disadvantaged or needy because they're independent

I guess most people just assume the norm.

Most of those single people listed will be younger people and older people who have lost their dp. While it's nearly 1/4 of families that are single parent households now, that means 3/4 do have 2 adults at home sharing living costs. (And some of that 1/4 will involve a single mother who "has access to a mans money" via high level child support/big divorce payout!)

People assume the norm, in all areas of life, unless told otherwise. That's just human nature.

I think having children any way puts you in a more vulnerable position, you have dependents that are very expensive, you need access to a bigger property to house them, you have a demand on your time and limits around childcare availability, so cant just work any hours, and they need your attention.

Back up plans are needed for any scenario, but are limited when you have young dcs.

(My backup plans include dh being heavily insured, I'd probably have a higher standard of living than I do now if he was hit by a bus...)

Windy - you still haven’t answered the question of why you start these threads. What do you get out if it?

I remember one of your recent threads which was exactly the same. Faux-concern about the “economically vulnerable” women who don’t work in the UK - particularly SAHMs. But really just an excused for the same little pathetic snipes about “grown adults living off a man’s money”, “self respect” blah blah.

Then when women try and explain how they don’t see themselves if living off a “man’s money” and nor does the DH, you’re straight back accusing them of gloating about their privileged lives

If you’re so obsessed about married women or those in relationships having it so easy, then what’s stopping you looking for a relationship?

You claim to abhor any woman who lives off a “man’s money”, so presumably if you were with someone who wanted to take you on holidays or suggested you cut your working hours, the answer would be “NO?” So what do you actually want?

I think you need to look at why you’re so obsessively embittered about women with access to “men’s money” while at the same time claiming you wouldn’t want to be in this position yourself.

It’s never helpful to compare your own situation to anyone else in terms of finance, looks or anything...
and when it come to income then it’s a private matter too, we don’t need to be picking over one another’s circumstances- having said that if someone is really struggling financially I understand why they wouldn’t want to hear about 2 day weeks and multiple foreign holidays tbh

These women may be a bit naive but are most likely just bragging. Also a need to give holidays tips for a 5 star resort has v little to do with women not having a "mans money"- it has everything to do with them lacking some social graces and awareness of what to talk about at work.

Of course women forget that not everyone married a man who was v well paid as their lives are not spent worrying about money. It's only a few women who are like this tbf.

But, it's not fair to say women should be measured by their job/role in the family regardless of income they bring in. It's a bit unfair! Also, has this just brought up some feelings for you with regards to having more money/stability/a partner who has mpre earning potential?

There will always be people who are a bit oblivious OP. Let it go!

@OhtheHillsareAlive - you seem to have misunderstood OP's point. She wasn't commenting on how being single costs far more than 50% of a couple's costs, which would have been reasonable. She was just making sexist assumptions that women in a couple are supported by men and casting aspersions on any woman who actually is supported by their partner.

Ah. I’ve only skimmed the thread, and I was going to say that while I don’t wholesale agree with OP, bits of it resonates for me, and perhaps it’s easy to feel sensitive to this stuff and become quite bitter. I do find it difficult to listen to women I know with children similar ages to mine talking about going part-time, because I would love to do that and my kids would benefit massively and I just can’t afford it. I also find it annoying when colleagues talk about how they manage parenting between two people (compressed hours so each has a weekday at home with the children etc). I know IABU, especially as I fully chose to have mine on my own! But I also get that it is irksome. I think when people do it knowing they’re talking to a single parent it’s pretty thoughtless, in the same way I try not to moan about my tiredness to a friend whose (SN) 5yo still doesn’t sleep through. And people at work in particular should be more cautious about conversation topics/tone.

Otoh, if there’s some goadiness going on... perhaps that’s not so applicable.

I suppose the flip side of this is that many men forget that not all men have access to a woman's free labour to cover all childcare responsibilities and manage the home.

The assumption that it's only female employees who have to leave on time/cant travel overseas at short notice does negatively effect men who have a caring responsibility. The assumption that men only have to focus on work and spend their free time relaxing (not on cleaning/cooking/shopping/running around after dcs) does put more pressure on those who dont have someone else to do the shit work.

Sharing costs and the labour of running a home and family is always going to be easier than doing it by yourself. Generally both sides benefit from that. (The trick is to pick a partner who will share both.)

"She was just making sexist assumptions that women in a couple are supported by men"

Men do earn more than women on average, so it' not a 'sexist assumption'.

I'm married, we bring in 2 salaries and yet cannot afford to buy our own house and have not holidayed abroad in over a decade. Conversely, I have friends who are single parents, own their own home and regularly holiday abroad.
I'm not sure where that puts me in your list of people to whinge about op

I suppose the flip side of this is that many men forget that not all men have access to a woman's free labour to cover all childcare responsibilities and manage the home.

Absofuckinglutely. And this too causes detriment to women, especially single mothers. But for some reason OP didn't think it worth mentioning.

I once got given a payrise when the Company found out I was supporting my student husband...I then used this to justify a better salary at a job interview and got it. So much for equal pay!

Zaeem5 I'm really not that embittered but I raise questions that are important to me, just not in your world. The questions I raise are not new and have been raised by feminists for the last 50 years + . Sorry I'm not Germaine Greer so my comments are seen as 'obsessive' rather than valid.

@Zaeem5 - and to answer your question, I suppose I'm looking for some solidarity and like minded people online in a society that doesn't preference my set up. Same reason many women go onto MN.

@HorridHenrysNits I’m with you all the way but am guessing the OP s question was generalised. I do however think that life is toughest for unsupported single mums , ( meaning no support with help from family or ex with the children or any maintenance for them) , every decision is about what can be earned whilst providing adequate care & love for them and meeting their schedules & needs.

There is no doubt that money gives you freedom , choices & one of the biggest stresses is insufficient income to provide any standard of living, let alone buy school uniform and get through the summer holidays.

But I think good on those that have comfortable lives, I do not feel remotely resentful toward my wealthy friends, just often inadequate that I can’t provide any kind of lifestyle other than survival for my children, despite my best efforts. Government austerity has crippled so many. And I’m going off on a tangent so will end here!

@Bourbonbiccy - @windygallows Can I just ask why it is the rudest thing ever to ask a single parent what their back up plan is, but it's not rude to ask a married women what their back up plan is for when their husband runs off with someone else

Because often they are living their backup plan. Because you're suggesting that I should find a husband for more security. Because people who already are working FT can't do any more, can they?

You are comparing apples to oranges in that you are comparing people who have choices with those who don't.

W could certainly change some laws to make things fairer - eg why should a couple get double the inheritance tax exemption band than someone who is single?

However I don't mind that some women have more than others. That is just how life is. I am very happy divorced, and single after 20 years of marriage (19 and a half if we want to be exact).

Windy - I think of you just came on and said something like - “there a couple of women at my work who earn the same as me, but I do admit I find it very difficult that they’re all off in holiday to x,y,z because their husbands are higher earners, while I can’t afford to do such things for my kids. I know you shouldn’t compose yourself to other people but nevertheless, AIBU to feel a bit sensitive when they talk about such things as if it’s something we should all take for granted?” - I think you wouid have got very different responses indeed.

But when you come on accusing and “othering” women (whose only “crime” is having a husband) with inflammatory language such as “living off a man”, or “living in a bubble” or “grown adults who are happy to let someone else pay for their entire existence”, it just obviously across as spiteful and disingenuous. Plus, as you well know from your other threads, it will invite the usual anti- SAHM brigade who can’t wait to make the usual sweeping generalisations and get in their little jibes about “self-respect”, or “wait till he leaves you for a younger model”. It’s boring.

You know all this full well because of your other threads and you know exactly what responses you will get.

And how can you be sure that in one, five or ten years time you won’t have a new partner or DH and therefore be (at least partly) “living off a man.”

@windygallows I never for one second suggested you should find a man, so please don't miss wrote or put words in my mouth.

Yes I think it is rude to be asking about people's back up plans, on both sides. I don't however think that people get fee reign to say whatever you want to a married person but have to adhere to a separate set of manners to a single parent. You can not know anyone's circumstance based on their relationship status, so the best compass is, don't throw assumptions or judgement on anyone.

I know a very successful single parent and by no way would like your assumption that she is poor old her, had no choice and is living her back up plan, she actually lives a financially better off life then myself and my (obviously soon to be adulterous ) husband.

I clearly think you have lost any right what so ever about being offended by others comments or gauge what is rude or not after this little beauty But well done you for finding a man - bet that's your best life's achievement!!

As you obviously either have no idea what is rude or not, or you simply choose to be incredibly rude to others ?

@windygallows - I get where you are coming from but have you considered that being married to someone who requires care plus having children can put you in a worse position than single parents?

People have different situations and I guess we should try and be sensitive, but being married does not necessarily make things easier (though it may be true for the majority).