To expect this employee to make appointments in her own time?

[Womanager]

Name changed for this.

I manage an employee with various long term health conditions. She works part time (mornings only), but it seems like every time she has a hospital appointment, she makes it in the mornings so she has to request time off work to attend. We have a policy regarding paid time off for appointments, but this women seems to be abusing it.

WIBU to ask her to make appointments in her own time?

I know with my local hospital you're just given a time. If you want to change it they say to expect a 6 week wait.

I know I'd rather take an appointment than rearrange for a much later date.

I have ulcerative colitis and with hospital appointments you don't get to pick and choose your appointments. If you cancel or rearrange they end up referring you back to the doctor.
Please try and be more understanding. Its very hard dealing with a lifelong health issue and working. You have no idea of the battles they face and the last thing they need is to be given a hard time by their workplace. If anything this will make their health worse with the anxiety of it all.

I can’t get my treatment at the start of the shift and then return to work, because firstly it takes too long and secondly I would not be fit for work. I have managed to get my treatments arranged on Fridays so this gives me the weekend to recover. Some of my treatments are in the holidays or afternoons, but so far I have needed time off work for one.

For those asking how frequently- this academic year I have needed time off for 3 consultant appointments (worked part of my shift), an MRI (which I had to travel to a different hospital for as the waiting lists were so long at my usual, and the letter said if I rescheduled I would be to the bottom of the list), and one IV treatment. This is more frequent than other years because as I said, my MS has suddenly become more active (hence the MRI and extra consultant appointments, usually I would have 2 consultant appointments a year)

In that year I have also attended a specialist nurse clinic, occupational health, consultant, and 3 IV treatments in my own time, including turning down a free holiday (invited to stay with someone in their caravan) to attend an appointment.

Can you not tell her that when she has an appointment in the morning she needs to work in the afternoon and switch her shift around?

You can't tell the hospital when to give you an appointment there are usually in the morning, i think it's the law to be let off work for hospital appts

I don't know, I have to go to hospital appointments regularly and have never been offered to suggest a time/date. I just receive a letter stating when I need to be somewhere. Trying to get in touch with them to change it is a job in itself as well.

Is it worth getting signed off sick temporarily? Or would that cause more problems?

I think it's the law to be let off work for hospital appts. This is not true - unless in some specific cases, such as pregnancy or, to a lesser degree, a disability - they have to make “reasonable adjustments”. They don’t have to allow you time off at all, even if you request it as leave or unpaid.

Signing off sick temporarily? Why? I’m not ‘sick’, I am capable of working. I have a long term illness, and it’s not like I can be signed off, recover, and then resume my duties without needing time off for appointments.. This is it for the rest of my life.

Hopefully once my new treatment is working I won’t need such frequent consultant appointments, and it will prevent my condition getting worse in future.

Lots of our appointments are given and not much room. For changing. Maybe the day but still for example an AM only.

You have had lots of advice from pps so I’m just jumping on to wish you luck with the infusions. I have MS and have a Tysabri infusion every four weeks and it is working brilliantly for me so far . I am lucky to have a job (a) where I can easily make up the time; and (b) with employers who are incredibly understanding. I am sorry this is not the case for you.

to you.

Hospital appointments count as reasonable adjustments if you’re classed as having a disability.

What is "reasonable" depends on the circumstances. It not only considers the employee, but also the impact on the employer. What is "reasonable" for a large employer with lots of staff doing the same work is completely different as to what is reasonable for a smaller employer/dept with no staff to cover. There is a growing body of case law about what is "reasonable" which is constantly evolving. For example, a tiny corner shop isn't expected to have level access for wheelchairs, but a supermarket or bank has to provide a ramp.

@HoneyandToast

Thank you. It’s Tysabri I’ve been put on. I’m not having too many side effects apart from dizziness after my infusion and extreme tiredness the next day. It’s too early to tell if it’s affecting my MS yet, I hope it does!

Good recent-ish article on the law at www.theguardian.com/careers/2017/feb/22/disability-discrimination-legal-rights and the whole act is at www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/contents (amendments/updates pending). Unfair dismissals can end up being very costly for an employer.

Sorry, I didn't mean to be insulting with the idea of being signed off for a while. I was just thinking if you're having a particularly phase time of tests and getting used to a new treatments that's not likely to last long, and meanwhile your manager is causing you extra stress, it could be worth taking the time to focus on a quicker recovery? Apologies again.

*difficult phase of time even

Does she choose the appointment times? I see so many clinicians at the hospital (I use all of my annual leave plus take some unpaid as I have so many). I have no control over the time. Sometimes, if I make the appointment in clinic I might get to choose between with 10 or 11 but that's it.

Certain clinics run on certain days - cardiology is Friday morning, rheumatology Friday afternoon, gastro enterology Friday afternoon, podiatry Wednesday morning etc. If those days or morning or afternoon slots clash with work what can I do?

@upthine I see. It’s not like it’s happening particularly quickly though- like I said my appointments have been spread out over the year so I don’t feel taking time off would be beneficial. Not like when I had a different health condition develop and I was in and out of hospital and diagnosed and treated in a matter of weeks, this has really been ongoing for the last few months with an appointment on average once a month (not all of those have been in work time!!). The hard part is hopefully over now I’ve started this new treatment, it was the run up (realising my condition is getting worse, formulating a treatment plan, having tests and double checking that the treatment is safe for me and then the first 2 treatments I had to be monitored more carefully). Hopefully now I am past that stage my appointments and my MS will now settle down.

I have some chronic illnesses too op. It must be horrible for your employer to not understand and be caring about it. I hope your treatments work for you!

I went through a period when my elderly mum was very unwell and I needed to go with her to appointments. One clinic only did Monday am, another thu pm, the 3rd Wednesdays. Each clinic was every 3-6 weeks. If you asked for the first appointment it was never free, if got asked for the last you are told they get given in order so the consultant didnt have gaps. Sometimes we waited over an hour after appointment time to be seen.

It's likely your employee can't help when her appointments are. It's up to you whether your business can afford it or if you can accommodate her in other ways TOIL, change her working hours to afternoons, pay for max number of hours off a year, get a job share who can cover etc.

This simply isn't true you CAN change hospital spots. I've spoke with several doctors about this and they all say you can and I have done in the past as well.
Yes SOME clinics do only run on certain days at certain times and it may very well be that this is the case but most probably unlikely.

Now days you are sent a letter with which you can access the NHS appointment system online and you can actually pick or change your appt online.
Maybe she doesn't know this, but maybe you should take a look at her letters next time and see if this information is included on it?

You can only change appointments if an alternative is available. As I said earlier in the thread I had to change one of ds appointments as he had an operation on the same day. The first date they could offer was 3 months later.

It’s not as simple as “I can’t make 10am could I come at 3 instead?”

And even with pick and choose (which we have only ever had for new referrals) more than once we have logged on to be told “sorry no appointments are available one will be sent in the post when they are released”

It’s possible the appointment only run on a morning, I have a long term medical condition, the clinic is only open on a AM.

So before you judge her, find out the facts.

In my experience you just get what you’re given with hospital appointments and you can like it or lump it.