To expect this employee to make appointments in her own time?

[Womanager]

Name changed for this.

I manage an employee with various long term health conditions. She works part time (mornings only), but it seems like every time she has a hospital appointment, she makes it in the mornings so she has to request time off work to attend. We have a policy regarding paid time off for appointments, but this women seems to be abusing it.

WIBU to ask her to make appointments in her own time?

Yabu. What makes you think she has control over appointments? Usually clinics run at certain times and it's impossible to get a different day or time as the consultants aren't there!

It's not as if she's taking time off to have her nails done, living with long-term health problems is very difficult.

You can tell many people have been fortunate enough not to suffer from a long term health condition. The comment above, get rid, that's a disgusting comment and you better hope karma doesn't get you!!! Anyway I think YABU hospital appointments are generally outwith our control unless you want to wait considerable time. Have you every waited for a mri scan?? Also try and put yourself in this person shoes for 1 minute, I doubt she is happy with her current situation and you don't sound supportive.

I'm so glad I don't work for you.

I have no say in when I get a hospital appointment, sometimes I don't even have written proof - several times appointments have been made over the phone for the following day. Thankfully it's never been an issue. My employer must have a better understanding of the Equal Rights Act than you.
Touch wood recently these appointments have been less frequent.

www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/advice-and-guidance/guidance-employers

Did she offer to make up the time? Normal people do, or work over-time. It is not normal to make up time for a hospital appointment. I have never heard of such a thing in all the companies I have worked for. Do you expect the employee to turn down an appointment, allowing any health issues to worsen, maybe leading to long- term sickness? Hospital appointments aren’t for fun and an employer has a duty of care. It’s in their interest too that their employee is fit for work.

Some clinics are only held in the mornings. Couldn't it be due to that?

I don't think there's anything you can do really. If you ask her to make them in an afternoon then equally with ft staff you'd need to ask them to make them in an evening. (Ie ask them to make appts in their own time).

Poor lady having multiple appointments for investigations etc. She must be very stressed and worried, and to have you as a boss too. I take it you don't work in a caring profession either. Have some sympathy FFS.

What are you like with pregnant women who may have more appointments if they have a risky pregnancy?

No you can't pick and choose your appointment and perhaps the doctor does run hltheur clinic morning only.

But let's not pretend that the ill person couldn't possibly be taking the piss too.

You don't usually have control over hospital appointments however you can request that she swaps her shift to cover her absence or doesn't get paid time off to attend. However ...... Good will is very important to working relationships and motivation of employees so depends on his w much you you value that over the time off

it’s very naive to think the patient has any control over when appointments take place

That's a pretty sweeping statement as we don't know if the employee has even tried to change an appointment or make a new one at a different time of day.

Both my OH and myself have long term health issues. Last year my OH was diagnosed with cancer which involved skeletal x-rays, MRI scan, bone marrow sampling, several months of chemo, various consultant appointments and monthly infusions. Every single one of those appointments was either changed (as the offered appointment was inconvenient) or was booked at a convenient time in the first place.

In our experience, all you have to do is ask to change rather than blindly accept their first suggested appointment. Yes, they huff and puff, but usually can find different days/times. Very, very few clinics are only one day per week or only mornings.

The naive people are the ones who blindly accept what they're given.

Sorry guys, I know AIBU hates these, but it’s actually a reverse.

I have multiple sclerosis and I am therefore covered by the Equality Act.

I have worked here for over 10 years but this past year I have a LOT of appointments as I’ve been having relapses, and I’m therefore starting a intravenous treatment that requires a stay of a few hours in hospital each time. About 1/2 of my appointments are made out of work time (the ones I have control over plus a few lucky occasions), but my boss still asks me to rearrange my other ones every time I request time off. As PPs have said, my consultants only work mornings, plus scans etc I am just given a time, if I wanted to rearrange it would mean another few months waiting. My IV treatments I have a little choice over- but it’s eg would you prefer to come for 9:00 or 10:30?

I work mornings only, partly for the needs of the business (I’m in a school so I do the literacy and maths in the mornings) and partly for my health. As I’m in a school, there is no flexi or annual leave to be booked.

If it makes a difference, I do AT LEAST half an hour unpaid overtime a day, and often closer to an hour, as well as covering special events unpaid on occasion. If I were to have flexi time and record this, I’m sure it would be enough to cover my time off.

Where possible, I do attend work before/after appointments, but with needing to allow an hour to travel there and I only work 3 hours a day, it’s not always possible.

My boss referred me to Occupational Health (which I attended in my own time) and she confirmed that I am covered by EA and therefore should be granted the time off.

My son has regular hospital appointments (every 3-6 months) and has done for years. Its a local hospital and never long to wait so he only needs about 90 mins off work. Every single appointment has been in the morning and when we requested afternoon ones were told the consultant only does morning clinics. I'm so glad his boss is more understanding than you.

all you have to do is ask to change rather than blindly accept their first suggested appointment

Yes, but this can result in a massive delay. I had to request a change, eight month wait. Have experienced the same across departments. I hope your OH is well.

The appointments are for varying things- not just consultant clinics, but MRI scans and treatments too

Okay, so while it's true some clinics are only run at certain times - and true again that changing appointments can be a nightmare - it seems a bit of a coincidence that they're all during work time. What's her work like generally? Does she tend to "muck in" where needed, or are things "someone else's issue to sort" - which might suggest the same view of the absences?

Overall I agree with Higa that this might be a case for a change in policies overall

I'm glad I saw your last update because I was about to launch into a rant about what an awful company you're helping run! Do they really make you show them your appointment letters?

I really sympathise. I've turned down some treatment that would really improve my quality of life because they only offer appointments in work time, an hour from my workplace, and I already have so many appointments for my chronic conditions.

Why is it so hard to allow you to work flexibly during what will hopefully be a temporary period while your MS stabilises? I would feel a bit unfairly treated in your position if I felt that I had no official way of at being able to show I was trying to work earlier/later to make up my contracted hours. Perhaps keep a record of them anyway?

Hope the IV treatment works and that your MS stabilises soon, womanager

Assholes. Are you in a union OP?

YABU. You can't just pick and choose your hospital appointments on the NHS. It doesn't work like that.

Cross posting above of course.

If your boss keeps questioning your appointments despite OH confirming you should be given the time off, I would see if a Union will advise whether this is harassment or not and proceed accordingly.

Of course you can ask to be reareanged but you can only be rearranged within the existing clinics, for example if you have a 10 am appointment on Thursday you could potentially swap to 8 am on a different Thursday (could be several months wait as obviously a popular slot), you couldn't swap to Friday however more convenient because there wouldn't be a clinic.

'Our HR policy says that appointments needs to be made in the employee's time - but where this is not possible,' make it up etc

Does this apply to maternity appts and treatment?

If she was working the whole day, I’d say YABU but she’s not.
Some appointments are urgent and some can’t be changed but I’d perhaps reiterate to the whole team that if possible, they should all try to book appointments outside of work

Hosp appts are very what given generally

OP OH has confirmed covered by EA.

This person, it sounds like just one, is being an arse.

When I was pregnant my manager tried to stop me attending appts on the basis that she didn't remember having an appt for that. Some people are just wankers.

So occy health at the LEA say it’s ok? Have you got a copy of that letter ? If yes just keep a copy in work or in your bag and every time you need to book an appointment show them the letter.

Who are you booking time off with ? The office or the class teacher or slt? Just ignore and carry one, if they make any more fuss go to the union