To expect this employee to make appointments in her own time?

[Womanager]

Name changed for this.

I manage an employee with various long term health conditions. She works part time (mornings only), but it seems like every time she has a hospital appointment, she makes it in the mornings so she has to request time off work to attend. We have a policy regarding paid time off for appointments, but this women seems to be abusing it.

WIBU to ask her to make appointments in her own time?

Do you know for sure that all the appointments are in the morning?

It could be that she's also going to afternoon appointments, but you don't know because it's in her own time.

You're only aware of the morning ones, because they're in work time.

Yabvu.

She won't have a choice about timings, and I'm sure if she had the choice she'd rather not be having the appointments.

Hopefully they'll find what's wrong soon and support her.

Meanwhile she's presumably not very well and needs all the support she can get, not a judgmental line manager.

It's unfortunate that for you but she will have no choice in hospital appointments, anything other than applying your policies equally would be disability discrimination.

Did she offer to make up the time? Normal people do, or work over-time.

You can judge if she is abusing the system with the rest of her general attitude. It's unfair to penalise someone who has no say in her medical condition and treatment.

If she abusing the system, I would seriously consider getting rid of her - unless her work is 100% and she is completely above board, there's usually something that can be raised and warrant warnings or straight dismissal. It can take time but it's best in long term for the team and the business.

How often is it happening?

Some clinics are mornings only, but she should make an effort to rearrange scans etc.

Our HR policy says that appointments needs to be made in the employee's time - but where this is not possible, they have to make up the time. If the same policy is used for everyone - and everyone can see that - I find that there doesn't have to be much of a discussion.

Second this. Change policy. Apply it to everyone.

Bit harsh that25cUKHeatwaveof2019, she may well work part-time due to the health conditions.

but she should make an effort to rearrange scans etc.

A normal wait for an urgent MRI in my area is six weeks, a non-urgent four to six months. Given MRIs are generally used for diagnostic purposes both the patient, and her consultant, shouldn't want it delaying.

Rearrange scans that's a good one

A lot of consultants only run NHS clinics in the mornings and see the more lucrative private clients in the more popular afternoon appointments, so as other posters have said, she probably doesn’t get a lot of choice.

How would you know that she makes all her appointments in the mornings and doesn't have any in her own time, too? You only see evidence of the ones that inconvenience you.

Our policy allows for 5 paid appmts annually for full time staff, pro rata for part time. You are expected to request that they are first or last thing so least disruptive. Anything after that it is expected you take as annual leave. The policy does say that if someone has a sudden diagnosis needing a specific treatment programme over a period of time that there is a discussion and mutual agreement reached as to how this is managed, generally with a mixture of annual leave, TOIL, Flexi working and unpaid leave. If any doubts, I would be referring to Occ Health for advice

My hospital appointments are always on a Wednesday afternoon because that is when that particular clinic runs and unfortunately I always get given school pick up times which means I have to find someone to collect my son which is far from ideal. I have no choice about the time.
I also think if you have a policy you can't say that this doesn't apply to just one member of staff.

If she abusing the system, I would seriously consider getting rid of her

Nice attitude you have towards the disabled, @that25cUKHeatwaveof2019. And it's an attitude that would likely land you with a DDA case if you did that with your staff.

Thank goodness we have anti-discrimination legislation to protect people with disabling health conditions from people like you.

And if you'd troubled yourself to RTFT, you'd see that this employee provides evidence of all appointments.

If she's got letters with her appointments on which she shows you, it is likely that she just gets these through the post and has no say when they are. She can ring and try and rearrange but from experience they generally have very little wiggle room unless you want to wait weeks longer which if she's got health issues that need treatment she shouldn't have to do.

This is a dreadful country to be sick in. I'm an employee like yours. You're damned if you don't work and damned if you do. Try and imagine her life. Some of these responses are so callous. I how she sues you for every penny if she can prove your attitude as I suspect you don't cover your "concerns" very well. Yabu.

Yabu to complain about someone doing something which is written into a policy you wrote as allowed.

Not happy? Change the policy. E.g. "all employees can receive a maximum of 5 paid appointments per year. Additional appointments will be given unpaid leave. Alternatively, employees can use annual leave or flexi to make up the shortfall".

Sometimes changing an appointment can mean a long waiting time for another one. I think I'd sit down and carefully explain the company policy, but see if she'd be happy to swap her morning for an afternoon. You need to treat carefully tho, might also be worth speaking to HR too.

A lot of consultants only run NHS clinics in the mornings and see the more lucrative private clients in the more popular afternoon appointments

Sorry but that is bollocks. Hospital consultants will have a contract stating the number of sessions they work, private patients are seen (rightly!) on their own time and not in more popular appointments in the same clinic.

I'm a hospital consultant. I have fixed clinic times and can't see patients outside these times as I have other commitments then. Where possible I'll always adjust appointments to help patients out but this often don't be possible. I'll also offer to refer to a colleague if they have more convenient appointment times but this may be at a less convenient location (the trust I work is spread over several hospitals). She probably has no choice, and like others have said rearranging scans etc can often mean waiting ages for another appointment.

No harm in trying to write a policy asking for time used for appointments to be made up, but run it by HR to make sure it fits with DDA.

This is a dreadful country to be sick in

Yep, free at the point of delivery healthcare is terrible

I can see how this would make life difficult for you, but I'd be very careful of assuming she's disproportionately scheduling her appointments in work hours. You have no idea how many she might have in the afternoons. If you intend to try and do anything to address this, do so without saying things you can't possibly back up.

Your business is not a charity and it is reasonable to expect all employees to work the hours they are paid for.

What would be unreasonable and discriminatory would be to have rules for this employee that couldn't be generally applied.

I think the absence policy needs tightening up - this will need to be done with consultation with employees but ultimately you have the right to insist that the business needs this change.

Something like - appointments should be made out of work hours where possible. Where employee can demonstrate that this was not possible, line manager has discretion to grant up to 8 hours paid absence per year per employee (pro rata for part time staff). Beyond this discretionary allowance any time off must be either worked in leiu another time by arrangement with line manager, or debit deducted from salary as unpaid leave.

Obviously you need to make reasonable adjustment for an employee with a health condition. This might include having a lot of flexibility in when she works her hours. It does not include paying her for regular large swathes of time unworked - that is you being taken for a ride.

I suggest that her contract is x number of hours per week so if she can't make the morning she can work in the pm. Many clinic times are fixed

Yabu. What makes you think she has control over appointments? Usually clinics run at certain times and it's impossible to get a different day or time as the consultants aren't there!

It's not as if she's taking time off to have her nails done, living with long-term health problems is very difficult.