To expect this employee to make appointments in her own time?

[Womanager]

Name changed for this.

I manage an employee with various long term health conditions. She works part time (mornings only), but it seems like every time she has a hospital appointment, she makes it in the mornings so she has to request time off work to attend. We have a policy regarding paid time off for appointments, but this women seems to be abusing it.

WIBU to ask her to make appointments in her own time?

Just reiterating what people said - it’s not simply a case of moving appointments. I know of one London hospital clinic that will discharge if you move appointments three times. That’s not even consecutively so very easy to get to over a number of years when appointments are randomly sent out. Also firmly agree about the point about being too ill to work but not ill enough for benefits or help. Pain conditions are so poorly understood in particular.

Clearly you are lucky enough not to have health issues. Hospital appointments are difficult to get in the first place and unlike dentist appointments you can't always change them to suit your employment. Sounds like this lady has a lot going on. As another poster wrote, you probably need to be a little careful to ensure there is no discrimination,however frustrating it is for you. I would advise her of the policy and ask her to make up some time.

. I know of one London hospital clinic that will discharge if you move appointments three times. That’s not even consecutively so very easy to get to over a number of years when appointments are randomly sent out

The same in my trust too.

..you don't make hospital appointments but are given them. of course she could offer to work an afternoon to make up as she works morning only.

I am a Finance Director and manage a fairly large team. I ask my employees to make up their time for appointments or take it as unpaid leave. If it was becoming a nuisance I would have to manage them out of the workplace.

The advice you are receiving here is nonsense, the law does not cover hospital or dental appointments in the workplace. Antenatal appointments are the only exception.

www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/rights-at-work/basic-rights-and-contracts/time-off-work-overview/

it seems like every time she has a hospital appointment, she makes it in the mornings

I haven't RTFT so maybe this has been said, bit how do you know that? She may have twice or three times as many appointments as you think, only some of which are in working hours.

Finance directors will always know how to squeeze on staff . We better trust this one , I’m sure she knows exactly how to get rid of people who have a chronic health problem .

So go on then , tell us Nadia .
How do you ‘manage ‘ people out of the work place .

I suppose a lot of people here would be interested to know the warning signs of their finance director seeking to get rid of them because if their costly healthcare appointments .

If it was becoming a nuisance I would have to manage them out of the workplace.

Yes totally, how dare an employee have chronic conditions, how utterly selfish of them.

PS do you not have a column for staff morale on your spreadsheet ?

*In our experience, all you have to do is ask to change rather than blindly accept their first suggested appointment. Yes, they huff and puff, but usually can find different days/times. Very, very few clinics are only one day per week or only mornings•

Ha ha ha ha ha

Phone just rings out - no one answers.

Then go in person to find they only have the clinic in the morning.

I am a Finance Director and manage a fairly large team. I ask my employees to make up their time for appointments or take it as unpaid leave. If it was becoming a nuisance I would have to manage them out of the workplace.

I am also a finance director and you sound like a dreadful manager.

So you know the appointments are genuine.

Show strong support for your employee during this period, we don’t know when we will be unfortunate to be hit by physical or mental health issues. It could even happen to you🙂

Try and imagine feeling vulnerable and scared.

Be a decent person.

Sorry guys, I know AIBU hates these, but it’s actually a reverse.”

YABU, why do that?! Just explain your situation and ask for advice. Ideally not in AIBU.

Because a non reverse - even in AIBU - would/could only lead to sympathy and a choruses of YANBU.

Whereas a reverse is here showing that there are many out there as dickish as (or more) as her employers and with as little understanding of employment legislation as her own employer

I work a six on six off shift I would always make the effort to make the appointment when I’m off shift.as does most of my team. But there is one who will purposely make the appointment when he is supposed to be at work and he lives 1.5 hours away.

2). She is taking the pee if she has lots (more than one a year) of appts.
therefore

What - having more than one hospital appointment a year is taking the piss?

4). It's all v well having chronic health conditions. - I suffer from more than one, and am disabled - but there's a point where you can't abuse your fellow workers like this and keep dumping your job on them!

So what is OP supposed to do- resign and throw herself on the mercy of the state / PIP?

NadiaCA

This discussion relates to the law as per The Equality Act 2010 and the duty to make reasonable adjustments. See The Statutory Code of Practice S6:33. The question is what is a reasonable adjustment?

Arguably, disabled people should be paid for time off for appointments!

See for example, Unison’s advice on this:

www.unison.org.uk/content/uploads/2014/11/TowebMedical-screening-leave-factsheet2.pdf

I assume they made sure they know what they are talking.about here? Note the comments about how making staff take time off unpaid is short sighted, as it’s a disincentive for them to attend check ups thereby leading to serious health problems.

The CAB fact sheet you made a link to also says:

“If you’re disabled and your employer won’t let you take time off for a medical appointment connected with your disability, they could be discriminating against you. You should get help from an experienced adviser.”

She might not have a choice. I’ve got an appointment for a clinic that only runs ever 2 weeks on a Friday between 11 and 2. It’s a pain for me as it’s a day I’ve got both my children and need to find childcare.

Where possible she should make appointments in her own time . However, hospital appointments often take ages to be sent out and the take another age to change dates. If she is required to attend set clinics then they are likely to be on set days. Many people get on with being short staffed, will being one person down be such an issue? In most lines of work you do not have to make up the time for a hospital appointment but you will still get paid.

I think you just need to talk to her, to ask her if she has any leeway on the timing of her appointments. But I’m really only replying to say I like your name - Womanager!

I've taken time off for dc' appointments never mind my own. Nadia would love that

My hospital appointments are always between 10am and noon. I have no choice as this is when the clinic runs. I have little say when they are either. If this employee has the same issue then I suspect you'd fall foul of disability discrimination laws if you make a deal over it.

Saying people have a choice over appointment timings might be correct in limited circumstances. So, if I need to book a CT scan or other tests that run 5 days a week between 9 and 5 then yes, possibly I can try to get one at a slightly more convenient time, but it's not guaranteed.

Clinic appointments are different entirely. The consultant's clinic will be on a set day and either morning or afternoon. So, 1 of my consultant's has a clinic on Friday between 2 and 5. When I make my next appointment I can try to book a time that is more convenient, but they block out certain times for new patients plus clinics rarely run to time so your appointment time is only a guideline any way.

The 2 hospitals that I attend are also any our and a half travel time from where I live and work (that's if no train delays too. Has taken me 3 hours before) so an hour and a half there, plus an a hour and a half back, plus allowing some extra time in case of delays en route because they won't see you if late adds about 3 and a half to 4 hours onto the appointment time anyway for me. Then allow for the time in the appointment plus if clinic is delayed plus waiting to have bloods done and X rays if needed, 1 appointment for me regularly takes an entire day.

Last week I had 1 appointment. Left home at 11.30 and got home at 4.30. I took AL for that This week I have another 2 - 1 is on my day off, the other I am taking AL for.

The previous 4 weeks I have had 2 full days per week in hospital. All using AL.

Can you imagine how hard this is? I am fighting not only against being ill and all that entails but also against attitudes that a few people display on here. Yes, no doubt I am a total inconvenience to my employer but what do I do? There are no benefits available to people like me. The threshold is so high that even people who are terminally ill are deemed fit to work. Either the state needs to lower the threshold for people to be able to claim benefits or legislation has to compel employers to support those with a disability better, even of funds are given by government to support them.

Why should the OP have to give up work? This is hopefully a short term issue and once the MS is in remission again she might have a long period of time where she is fit and well and needs no time off.

These attitudes are exactly why the EA is just worthless. Any employer that doesn't want to comply just needs to find an excuse to get rid of someone.