To expect this employee to make appointments in her own time?

[Womanager]

Name changed for this.

I manage an employee with various long term health conditions. She works part time (mornings only), but it seems like every time she has a hospital appointment, she makes it in the mornings so she has to request time off work to attend. We have a policy regarding paid time off for appointments, but this women seems to be abusing it.

WIBU to ask her to make appointments in her own time?

It depends whether they are general appointments where there might be some flexibility when she can make them, or whether she has to take what she gets. She can't be expected to change appointments if they will delay treatment, however she should make the effort for non urgent ones.

We have a policy where we have to work back the time. This changed due to piss takers so everyone suffered

@DecomposingComposers

@Judashascomeintosomemoney Hello... Fellow brain tumour parent here! My daughter is in treatment and we take what we are given as far as appointments go! We would be laughed at if we try and dictated when we have appointments! Also to echo others here, most clinics run on particular days and mornings or afternoons. I'm sure she isn't booking morning appointments on purpose - she probably doesn't have a choice and you can rest assured what ever appointment you are given it will always be on a day and time least convenient to you!

I am a Finance Director and manage a fairly large team. I ask my employees to make up their time for appointments or take it as unpaid leave. If it was becoming a nuisance I would have to manage them out of the workplace.

You sound like a dreadful manager to be honest.
I am so glad I have a compassionate, effective and professional manager who cares about her staff.

I am a Finance Director and manage a fairly large team. I ask my employees to make up their time for appointments or take it as unpaid leave. If it was becoming a nuisance I would have to manage them out of the workplace.

You are the reason that so many disabled people live in poverty.

Manage them out is a nice way of saying make life so difficult for someone they leave.

What a nice thing to do to a person with a chronic health condition.

You're a complete bastard. Maybe you will find yourself in this boat one day. If you do I expect you will bring all the legal help to the fore as for people like you, that's the way it always works.

Having had the misfortune to have had many hospital appointments recently, it is often (but not always) impossible to get them at a convenient time.

Ohbehave1 how am I an arse for pointing out that you can change appts but not all the time exactly? I already said that not all appts can be changed. I think you're the arse here.

This is why they had to lehislate about time off for ante natal appts but still something like 30k women lose their jobs every year due to pregnancy

This is why they had to lehislate about time off for ante natal appts but still something like 30k women lose their jobs every year due to pregnancy

And how many women don't even get the job in the first place because some employers avoid women of child bearing age.

Employee rights can be a double edged sword.

I am a Finance Director and manage a fairly large team. I ask my employees to make up their time for appointments or take it as unpaid leave. If it was becoming a nuisance I would have to manage them out of the workplace

I bet you are also one of those hypocritical cunt employers who also moan about disabled people claiming benefits.

You very rarely get choices re times for hospital appointments. Yabu

Here's the crux: on the one hand you are not LEGALLY obliged to give her the time off for these appointments and you are within your rights to ask her to make the time up if you are so inclined.

HOWEVER: what are the moral implications?

This woman clearly has serious health issues to be having these appointments, her life must be very difficult and you have to ask yourself: do you want to be THAT manager and not just manager, but that person who is unpleasant enough to give her a hard time over this?

I work for the NHS and there are some clinics who only run in the morning as the consultants do their clinics in the AM and review their patients on the wards in the PM: this is the case for the majority of specialities.

Appointments are at a premium as the demand is so high and generally you need to take the appointments given or you face a longer wait.

Could she be taking the mick? Possibly, but I think you're being too hard on her.

I hate to say it, but your post shows you in a negative light.

What is the job role she's in?

Also: if you do decide to take her to task you may find yourself in constructive dismissal/harassment territory and at a tribunal you have a good chance of losing because the time taken is for a medical condition: particularly if her condition is considered a disability by the Equality Act 2006.

I know you're running a business not a charity but I think if you took a more empathetic attitude you would feel less angry about this and view it as a minor inconvenience.

Put yourself in her position and if you really can't, approach her about using some of her holiday time to take the edge off.

How frequent are these appointments because if it's once a month every month, you can afford to let it go but if it's weekly I can see why it puts a strain on others... but try to find a workable solution.

Kazzy you think women would be in a better position with no legal protection?

Hahahaha ah hahahaha

Kazzy you think women would be in a better position with no legal protection?

No, I think there has to be a balance.

I'm sure lots of women would prefer to have a job with fewer rights than no job at all.

My personal opinion is that employee rights generally have gone too far towards the employee (not women particularly but across the board). I see on a daily basis, firms choosing not to employ because of the perceived risk of tribunals, unable to dismiss, etc., etc, particularly smaller firms.

I do currently have a member of staff who does have various appointments at the hospital, however their work is always completed on time, albeit with help from myself and other team members and when she was off for quite some time it was a senior management decision to support her on full pay whilst we additionally hired a contractor to complete her work. So no, I am not a complete asshole.

However, if critical deadlines weren't being met and the business was suffering then it would be a discussion that would have to be had with HR.

And as a Director, I am responsible to the board for not meeting deadlines and the business suffering as a result, not my staff.

There is a limit to how much you can support your staff before they are taking the piss and the business as well as other team members are suffering by picking up the slack.

And yes I have had surgery myself and taken the time as unpaid leave because I do set the example.

Also, I am not a HR professional, so I do not know the law surrounding managing employees out of the workplace. However, if you are running a business and not a charity then if an employee is absent a lot to the detriment of the business then it is likely a discussion that would happen in most businesses. I have not forced anyone out of the workplace yet in my career as I have not had that need.

There is a limit to how much you can support your staff before they are taking the piss and the business as well as other team members are suffering by picking up the slack

I appreciate that there may come a time where the staffs absence due to ill health may be unsustainable for a business but your comment that the sick person is "taking the piss" really demonstrates what kind of person you are and your real attitude towards people. You are not nice at all.

How is it the responsibility of your team members to pick up all the workload of someone who consistently has time off for hospital appointments?

This is extremely unfair to your colleagues. Unfortunately, it is not just about one person being sick. Other team members directly suffer as a result picking up the slack.

If we didnt pick up the slack 500+ employees would not be paid their salary each week. So it really depends on what that particular employees job role is as it could severely impact the lives of hundreds of others if it such a critical role, the work simply cannot wait.

The people on here that are saying I am horrible etc would be the same people crying down the phone or threatening legal action when their salary wasnt paid on time. How would they feel they were told that the wages clerk is too sick and has too many appointments to process their pay on time? So they will just have to wait. In my experience, people do not want to hear excuses when it comes to their salary payments.

Whats your opinion on disability benefits Nadia

I dont have an opinion on disability benefit. Happy to pay the taxes I do for those in genuine need.

So would you class an employee who needs 2 or 3 days off a month as a genuine need to be on ESA

Nadia the Finance Director who is accountable to the Board but appears to have not the slightest clue about how an organisation legally operates.. Board directors if you have a Nadia running finance, I'd get an audit done asap....

I ask my employees to make up their time for appointments or take it as unpaid leave. If it was becoming a nuisance I would have to manage them out of the workplace.

Also, I am not a HR professional, so I do not know the law surrounding managing employees out of the workplace

I haven't lived in the UK for a few years, but when I did I can't imagine having much choice over medical appointments taking place in an NHS hospital. I remember everything taking a very long time and when you finally got your letter confirming your scan/procedure/appointment you moved heaven and earth to make it because it was nigh on impossible to get it changed.