To expect this employee to make appointments in her own time?

[Womanager]

Name changed for this.

I manage an employee with various long term health conditions. She works part time (mornings only), but it seems like every time she has a hospital appointment, she makes it in the mornings so she has to request time off work to attend. We have a policy regarding paid time off for appointments, but this women seems to be abusing it.

WIBU to ask her to make appointments in her own time?

My experience of pension schemes is that it is now very hard to get early retirement on grounds of ill health. It did not used to be.

Are you in a work pension scheme?

Yes I am, but the rules are they will only pay out if you are too ill to work - if it comes to it I won't be too ill to work, just not well enough for an employer to employ me.

Plus, I've still got another 20 years until retirement so I wouldn't get that much in a pension if I took it now.

I truly believe that if the government expect people to work with illness and disabilities then they need to compel employers or provide financial assistance.

I'm in a better position than op because I get annual leave. It's not right.

I am having to attend lots of medical appointments at the moment, and I only work mornings. I just ask whether I can work later to make the time up. I’m relieved that the company I work for are flexible.

A lot of people saying you get given an appointment and you have to stick with it or wait ages. My DS has a complex genetic condition so is under about 5 different clinics and consultants at 4 different hospitals in London. This was the case for the 1st appointment but now we are told to come back in 3 months or whenever they want to see him next and make another appointment at the reception desk. If he needs an MRI then we book that too. I can choose the time and day depending on the clinics. Surely that isn't London and she can choose an appointment early if she can't get one outside her working hours.

It's even silly things like blood tests - our health authority has recently closed down a lot of the satellite clinics where you can get bloods taken. All of the remaining ones are only open in the morning, and then only sees the first X number of patients and from experience if you aren't there before they open you will be unlucky. The other place is at the hospital. The wait is never under 3 hours and the last ticket is issued at 3.30. so, even to have a blood test, that I have at least monthly, I have to take time off work.

If you only need a blood test once in a blue moon then it's a slight inconvenience but if it's a regular thing it really impacts on work.

I’m being treated in London at a big hospital and my appointments at the moment are one week apart. But the clinic only operates on one morning a week. That’s it.

Perfectly reasonable. She will probably screw blue murder though so be prepared!

@LonelyGir1 Why don't you read the thread before making insensitve comments?

Yes I am, but the rules are they will only pay out if you are too ill to work - if it comes to it I won't be too ill to work, just not well enough for an employer to employ me.

Mine will give partial retirement if I am too ill for my current job but considered capable of other work.

My partner has a long term health condition and we don't 'make' any of his hospital appointments, they just arrive in the post with a date+time and we attend. They're almost always at inconvenient times for us and we just make do because more often than not, the wait to rearrange is very long and not worthwhile.

If he misses work for an appointment, he makes the time back.

As previous posters have said, it depends what the appointments are for. My DH has a long term health condition and his clinics are only available on certain days for certain doctors/clinics.

It's not unreasonable to ask she swaps shifts when possible

Eta: we don't arrange his appts, they come in the post with a clinic date & time

I sympathise with you and so many others on this thread. It's horrible not being well enough to work but not unwell enough to claim disability benefits. Not to mention that working is beneficial in other ways than just financially, especially for someone who might otherwise not get out much or at all some days.

It depends on your line of business and her health conditions as much as anything. (You may not want to give details.) Is her job something where she can make up the missed hours on her own time? Is her health likely to improve? Is she generally good at her job and valuable?

I do some part time admin work (note-taker) and have done a few sickness meetings - there comes a point where an employee's ill-health means that the employer can't sustain the employment indefinitely, but there is a clear procedure for dealing with this. Some jobs have more leeway than others regarding the likelihood of making up time missed. (The field I work in is education, therefore there can come a point where a school cannot afford to continue effectively paying two salaried - the sick person and the person hired to cover for them.)

You don’t get to choose hospital appt times. I wish you could. They just get sent out by letter. I did ring once to try and change it to an earlier time in the day but they refused. You also never get seen on time!

The not being seen on time is another problem as a lot of schools and employers don't get that it's often not a case of "just popping out" to an appointment. By the time you've got there an hour or more early to find a parking space and the appointment has run sometimes hours late that's the lions share of the day.

If she has a choice, YANBU. But these days, it's not as easy to get doctors'/ hospital appointments at the time you'd like as it used to be; and some clinics only run in the morning. I might ask to see her appointment letters if this is happening regularly, just to make sure that she's not inventing the appointments as an excuse; but assuming that they are genuine, there probably isn't anything that can be done about it.

And, as others have pointed out, you usually don't get seen on time, and it's hard to estimate how long things will take. If you don't accept the appointment at the time provided, it could be weeks or months before you get another. And even if 'going private' were otherwise a possible solution, someone who has several pre-existing conditions is likely to find it almost impossible to get affordable insurance. I think you just have to accept it: it's health, not shopping.

I use to take my mum to hospital appointments regularly when she was alive and we never had a choice of times the hospital set them depending on the clinic - a great deal were in the morning because in the afternoons the drs use to discuss cases etc. I would let it ride otherwise you could be accused of bullying her and singling her out because of her illness or disability.

My son has a million appointments I have never been given a choice as to when they are

@ReanimatedSGB if you rtft (or even just my posts) you would see that the line of business and health conditions have been revealed... as for whether I’m a good worker and valuable or not, that depends on who you ask 😂 my colleagues seem to think so, the boss not so much.

It’s partly theoretical. I have been asked (several times, at least every time I ask for an appointment and it’s also been raised more generally in staff meetings etc) to make appointments in my own time. At the moment I haven’t been refused or told I have to have it unpaid (else I will be going to my union)

I would have thought that your job (reading with kids?) would be very easy to just re schedule to an afternoon, it not like its that often either? So just ask to swop to an afternoon session, job sorted!

Op I'm so sorry you're dealing with such an unsympathetic employer.

If you're in a union then representation from them could be useful. Unfortunately if you're not most unions won't allow you to join them and then have them represent you on a prior issue. - see you are in Union in which case really their advice would be best.

If not perhaps speak to someone like acas for advice?

Yes there are some protections under the equality act for the disabled BUT it's not total protection, if somebody is not well enough to reasonably fulfil the needs of their contract then that's fair grounds for dismissal I'm afraid, though there are steps employers need to go through first.

Re consultants setting own hours:

"Sorry but that is bollocks. Hospital consultants will have a contract stating the number of sessions they work, private patients are seen (rightly!) on their own time and not in more popular appointments in the same clinic." Are you seriously trying to claim consultants don't negotiate their contracts to suit them?!

And you seem to contradict yourself/prove this point anyway:

"I'm a hospital consultant. I have fixed clinic times and can't see patients outside these times as I have other commitments then" what other commitments? Who decides your fixed clinic times? Because that very much sounds like you do!

5 appointments in almost a full academic year sounds far from problematic to me! I think they'd be on the back foot if they tried to claim it was.

Between my DC we are seeing 6 different medical depts with appointments every few months or more.

I try to book annual leave or arrange them for my days off as I work part time but as you know it's not always possible.

I feel crap and guilty in many ways - bad for my child that I'm checking emails etc while with them or working late to make up time, and guilty that I'm not at work and they are missing school etc. Also that we are missing fun time on my days off and instead are in various appointments.

No one asks to be ill or have ill kids FFS.

Totally heartless!

Since when have we been able to choise times for hospital appointments? You risk being hauled through tbe courts for constructive dismissal?