To be embarrassed to be British?

[ReasonablyIntelligent]

I've just seen on the news that the 29 Brexit Party MEPs all turned their backs (quite literally) during the European anthem in yesterday's opening session to the European Parliament.

Regardless of Pro-Brexit / Anti-Brexit debates, this is deeply deeply inappropriate, insanely undiplomatic and will have done nothing other than make the UK look ridiculous, childish and plain rude.

I'm ashamed to be represented by these people and the way things are going, ashamed to be a part of a country that is behaving like this.
Everyone else in Europe must think we are dirt.

Sorry, I misread, I thought you'd written 'your come back' not 'comment back'

No this one
Where is this place you live with an abundance of tradesmen? You can't find a builder round here for love nor money they're all booked up for months in advance and rushed off their feet. And they charge a fortune

It reads as very sarcastic and disbelieving, not sure why you think people would lie about their wages declining, when it’s so clearly true.
Rates in construction have declined.
This is also before taking inflation I to account, so in real terms it’s even worse.

Saw Widdicome in full flow today. Oh god how embarrassing.

YANBU.

Since the vote for self-economic harm in 2016 I have tried to avoid owning up to being British when abroad. I wear nothing that could identify me as British, speak the local language when anywhere in public, will not have English translations in museums etc.

developers can’t sell their houses
Could it be that buyers are nervous about Brexit?

I did actually look for an older article, I'll try to find more up to date information to see if the skills shortage has eased any.

Why on earth do you think people were/are complaining? For fun? The rates are going up a bit now, but they are still nowhere near what they were before!
Or did you genuinely just think peoples complaints were just ‘ignorant’ and ‘racist’?
I’m shocked by peoples ignorance , given how many years people have been complaining about this!!

^^This

People have no idea. Where I live there are groups of men from Romania or elsewhere in the EU, hanging around outside the DIY stores B&Q, Wickes etc they are happy to haggle a price for any job you want doing. Just gone in to pick up some laminate flooring, some plaster, or decking? Need a gazebo built, a new patio, plastering, or some plumbing? New Kitchen units put in? Don't bother paying a legitimate trades person £££. Just quote the lowest, shittiest price you can afford and it's a yes, no or maybe.

This is what gets people's backs up. People in the the trade have really suffered. I know people who refuse to work with any of the contractors on behalf of councils or housing trusts, because they hire EU migrants at a price they were earning decades ago. People are quite justifiably angry when they experience this.

Then the only person who appears to be listening to them is Nigel fucking Farage. Nigel Farage has immigrants from the former colonies who came to this country in the 70s and 80s listening to him, because of what they perceive EU immigration has done to their ability to live. I do think people like to think all brexiters are just racist etc. Well I used to force myself to listen to NF some evenings on LBC and it was interesting how many people from diverse backgrounds would phone in.

People are really, really struggling and whilst it isn't the fault of migrants trying to make a better life for themselves EU migration has not helped in terms of what people experience.

Why are you trying to go out of your way to find an article to ‘prove’ your point? There have been several people on this thread saying the same thing I have, that construction workers wages have declined since the influx of EU migrants. It’s demonstrably true.
The fact you’re going out of your way to find a more up to date article to attempt to ‘disprove’ our real life experience makes me question your motives tbh. I don’t feel like you’re entering into this discussion in good faith.

ForalltheSaints

I try to get in the fact that I voted Remain as soon as I can so they know I didn't vote for this shit show. Same with Europeans I meet in the UK so they know I'm not offended by their presence or think they're stealing my job.

@KennDodd, of course people aren’t buying houses because of Brexit. And your point is?

PreseaCombatir I agree that no member of the EU can opt out of the four freedoms of movement of people, goods, services and capital. They are the whole point of the single market and no member government can legislate against them.

I don't think governments should try to prevent freedom of movement. I think they should invest in their citizens' education and skills, and their country's industries and infrastructure. I think if they outlawed offshore tax havens and financed tax authorities like HMRC to pursue tax evaders and avoiders, they could better afford to do those things. Maybe there wouldn't be so many indigenous low-skilled workers and economic migrants then.

It is not just your income that impacts your standard of living but also the cost of living. Britain's rising housing costs are a travesty and are directly affected by government policy, or lack thereof.

Same with Europeans I meet in the UK so they know I'm not offended by their presence or think they're stealing my job

The fact you’ve just reduced everything you’ve read on here to ‘stealing our jobs’ says it all.

I try to get in the fact that I voted Remain as soon as I can so they know I didn't vote for this shit show. Same with Europeans I meet in the UK so they know I'm not offended by their presence or think they're stealing my job. Good for you.

It is not just your income that impacts your standard of living but also the cost of living. Britain's rising housing costs are a travesty and are directly affected by government policy, or lack thereof.

I don’t disagree with you, but these are things that affect the whole population.
The price of living in the UK is a disgrace, however that doesn’t negate the decline in wages of construction workers which is a direct result of EU immigration.
As I said, I don’t begrudge anyone earning a living, it’s just frustrating when people argue black is white, particularly when they don’t work in these industries and it doesn’t affect them!

KenDodd - So you're insinuating that anyone who voted Brexit is concerned that an immigrant is going to take their job and that they are offended by non-British people being in this country - you are funny!

YANBU

I do see your point Presea and you've argued it very well.

People often talk about the benefits of immigration throughout society as a whole.
While this is true, it is also demonstrably true that a huge influx of immigrants is detrimental to certain industries and sections of society (such as construction workers).
Why shouldn’t families like mine be protected? Why are we so easy to discard, just because it makes life better for you? (General you!)
It seems people are all for protecting the vulnerable, but only as long as they are the right ‘type’ of vulnerable.
I still get frustrated at peoples willfull ignorance, but it doesn’t surprise me, I’m used to it 🤷‍♀️

PreseaCombatir
No I wasn't being sarcastic. I have wanted to get a kitchen extension and couldn't find anybody to do it. Builders did come to quote but then we'd never get the quote or they'd just say they were too busy. In the end we abandoned the idea and just got a new kitchen instead. Even that we had to wait 4.5 months for the fitter to have a slot. He charged £32 an hour +vat (we're way outside London and SE) I don't know how that compares to ten years ago.

I meet tradesmen all the time through my job (H&S), yet to meet an Eastern European one (I do meet them in other professions). My area voted Leave.

Thank you LauderSyme
As I said, I don’t disagree with anything you’ve said, the government could certainly do more to help those in industries like DP, particularly in terms of things like umbrella companies robbing people blind, but that’s a whole other discussion for another day!

People are really, really struggling and whilst it isn't the fault of migrants trying to make a better life for themselves EU migration has not helped in terms of what people experience
Yes, this 100%

It seems people are all for protecting the vulnerable, but only as long as they are the right ‘type’ of vulnerable

Oh dear I think I have to plead guilty to this Thank you for opening my eyes a little.

Laudersyme - The problem with free movement though is if you've got poor countries with very low wages compared to richer countries then of course no one is go going to want to go there and work, but their citizens will want to migrate to the richer countries, and that's where the problems lie.

The back turning was disgusting. Widdecombe’s remarks were disgusting. They are the spiritual heirs of Oswald Mosley.

We're you also so critical of British builders in the 80s going to Germany when there was a shortage of work here?

Here we go, 40 year old examples now! Were those guys undercutting German workers’ wages?