To be very uncomfortable with 17 year old Billie Eilish's Bad Guy video?

[AbsentmindedWoman]

Am I being an old gimmer?

It makes me deeply uncomfortable because she's not legally an adult, and I'm pretty certain the production team around her are all adults, possibly with the exception of an intern or two. Most of the men you can see in the video are.

It feels very exploitative. I don't know much about this singer, but a quick google shows she is open about mental health issues, so possibly quite vulnerable in a way, and then she's singing about bruises on her knees and rough sex, seducing dads (who are obviously going to be adult men!) and she's only 17 years old.

I'll be honest, I would have thought in 2019 this wouldn't be legal until the singer is 18 - or at least frowned upon by the industry as not acceptable? Not that it is magically better when someone turns 18 but the whole attitude seems very dated?

Haha just read the Coldplay comment back and it didn't read the way I meant.

I meant the pearl clutchers listening to Coldplay whilst tutting at modern music lol.

My friends mentioned were in consensual BDSM relationships and very much enjoyed rough sex, but they're adults. They would not agree with you remotely when you say they suffered domestic violence. They are sexual masochists.

I think it is absolutely ok for adult women to enjoy rough sex. What I find concerning is it casually being presented without context, without any proper discussion of boundaries and limits and safewords - as seen in quite a lot of mainstream porn.

I disagree with your opinion that Billie is obviously in control and is the real 'bad guy' and somehow the real 'bad guy'. To me it reads differently.

SpookyMulder - most kids/adolescents think that of themselves (that they're the one in control, the baddest player in the scenario, etc). They are almost invariably wrong.

I spent a few years on the BDSM scene. If you honestly think that a sizeable proportion of the dudes domming girls who believe they're in control and empowered women etc aren't laughing at them and exploiting them then you're dreaming.

I'm saying this as someone who's barely into their late 20s. 17 is very young. We all think we're a badman at that age, which is why it's so cringeworthy to see a 17 year old insist (in whichever way) that they're the one in charge relative to a much older, more experienced and more physically powerful fellow human. They very seldom are.

Since when was pop music about making middle aged women comfortable?Billie Eilish isn't prancing around in absurd sexualised outfits like loads of mainstream female pop artists, she wears very unsexy, individual clothes and she sings about interesting things too.I find her a far healthier role model than the likes of Zoella or Girls Aloud.Good for her singing about how she doesn't take any crap from all the 'bad' guys. I'd far rather that than simpering about heartbreak or finding the right man.

^^ this

Billie Eilish rocks, I think she's fabulous. And I'm in my fifties, intelligent and gave blow jobs aged 17.

And FWIW, I'm not perturbed by the blowjob references. It is normal and not problematic in and of itself for people in their late teens to be having oral sex.

But again, it's painfully naive to suggest that there is no negative impact from the normalisation of violent sexual themes. I know so, so many people who work with young people in either a medical or social capacity who say that there is an epidemic of young girls completely bewildered by and afraid of what is now expected of them sexually. There's a big, big difference between bloody noses in a controlled sexual environment between experienced adults and a generation of impulsive, pornwashed adolescent boys thinking that brutalising girls is an inherent part of ordinary sex.

Blimey, we've gone from Bad Guy being exploitative to being fully on board with sexual masochists, who get check bones broken and detached retinas!

Maybe, just maybe if 17 year olds discuss this stuff and have a conversation with their peers and their parents (if they're not busy gasping with horror) then they might be able to be better informed about sexual pleasure and where the boundary lies between pleasure and exploitation and masochism and abuse.

I don't think she's sexualising 17 years old at all.

They manage to do that themselves. I was giving blow jobs from 15 and I was in no was coerced. I WANTED to. I was a highly sexual being from my younger teenage years.

Ive never heard of Billie Eilish, so I just googled her. She don’t smile much, does she?

Can’t get worked up about her music though.

I watched her at Glasto, on the big screen, no makeup, not hiding her acne, hair unbrushed, huge baggy clothes, she absolutely fucking smashed it!

Maybe have a listen to xanny (anti drugs) and then come back and judge her

Her music is very depressing. All sung in the same whispery, irritating tone.

Well this is just the musical face now if the trend for teen girls to maintain they’re all into the BDSM scene, before they’ve even had so much as a boyfriend. There are the forums now such as “Thinspo” (inspiration to be thin) where they all encourage themselves to only eat an apple every three days or something like that, so they can be “frail” and “weak”. Then light-headed and delighted they have no strength left, they go looking for their online dom, requesting to be choked or face slapped etc. They have no idea what they’re getting into, yet they think they’re 100% in control. I know of a few girls in DS’ school who have gone this route and they got so bogged down in watching porn and seeking these relationships online that they couldn’t focus on their GCSEs at all and didn’t even show up for the exams. They can’t get out of bed now and have been referred for therapy. These are super-bright girls to in one of London’s top independent schools. It’s scary to see.

We’re in an age where it’s cool to have bruises on your knees and sing about it at a festival like Glastonbury, while the male artist up next will have all the crowd swaying to his little rap about giving his mate’s woman a facial.

My dh told me how uncomfortable he was that our 14 year old dd was watching the music video that you are describing. My dd is a massive fan. As are most of her fan base. Clearly she is not a great model for young girls.

I'm not judging her - I think she's a talented singer/ performer from the few songs I've heard. I think she is being let down by the adults around her.

Well actually, my husband has banned our 11 year-old from watching Billie.

She is an adult.

At 17 most kids are starting their A levels fgs. I wouldn’t call them adults at all!

Just watched the video having read this thread. My honest reaction is, is that it??

She's a performance artist with a persona, not your kids babysitter.

I just watched the video for the 1st time. I didn't think much of it. I am in my early 40s and it is certainly no surprise to me that 17 year old girls are having sex; with (much) older men and sometimes with other people's dads. It is not uncommon. That said, I think the song is garbage.

Also, I didn't think blowjob from the brused knees, it doesn't take that long! I did think doggystyle though !

Oh, there will always be stupid people whining about art they don't understand. But the psychological problems some young people have these days have fuck all to do with pop music, or computer games, or sexual diversity. British young people's poor mental health is a lot more due to:

1. Austerity. Not only are the young frequently aware of their parents' terrible, crushing anxiety about money - or not getting enough to eat themselves, or in insecure accommodation, but there have been such drastic cuts to funding for MH support that teens with MH issues can be waiting months if not years for diagnosis and treatment.
2. Education: there has been a huge increase in testing over the last few years, coupled with an additional culture of surveillance, which makes everyone anxious - and the fact that successive clueless education ministers keep switching the goalposts around, without any consideration for the fact that young people are constantly being told that these exams REALLY MATTER and that if they fail their lives will be ruined.
3. Brexit and the rise of fascism: some kids are getting angry and alienated because they are on the recieving end of bigotry; others are embracing bigotry and finding it isn't that much of a comfort.

For some kids, this kind of dark, scary, parent-winding-up music is a very safe way to explore their own worries and feel comforted and 'understood'.

But the song isn't about her being exploited. It's about her being the exploiter.

She is a 17 year old girl.

How exactly is she exploiting anyone? Is it with her bloody nose? Or having bruised knees? How very empowering.

Who is she exploiting? Her boyfriends fathers? Poor fellas....

I bet you are the kind of person who thinks that blokes who go to lapdancing clubs are being 'exploited' by the dancers.

Billie Eilish is incredibly talented, have you seen how she dresses for performances and why? I think she's much more clued up than you are giving her credit for.

Has anyone in here noticed that sometimes music isn't fucking autobiographical?

Btw, how dare you insinuate that i support the exploitation of women because I'm not a pearl clutching repressed weirdo.

Just watched a bit and turned off when she started smearing blood on her face. Crap song anyway.

Blimey. She didn’t look exploited to me. Hardly an old mans dream teen porn I’d imagine.
I think she singing about doing dirty stuff because she can but I think very clearly it’s on her terms.
Not sure a nosebleed is anything bad either. We all bleed every month. Women and blood is scary for men. She’s a bad guy - she’ll see more blood than a middle aged tough guy.