AIBU to think that this child should be allowed to compete as a girl? Transgender topic.

[Cassort]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/video_and_audio/headlines/48800075/transgender-skater-fighting-to-compete?ocid=socialflow_facebook&ns_mchannel=social&ns_campaign=bbcnews&ns_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR3SHOZZproHs8lkaYi9tz5VcKPnE9xQRt7AR8m8rRPu5lPTJkp1m1808Os

It's an 11 year old (born male) ice skater. There's a little video where to me she looks female.

I daren't put this on the feminism board, but AIBU to think that in 20 years time we will look back in shame at how we have treated transgendered individuals?

I just put myself in those shoes for 5 hours. What on earth would I think? How much hate would I feel? How fucked up/strange/weird would I feel?

I have a very uneasy feeling in my soul about the vociferous opposition to transgenderism on MN currently. It doesn't sit comfortably with me.

I came across this story just now and it's typical of I suppose what the feminist MNers want transgender people to face. I.e. that they can't...

Should she compete as a girl? Or AIBU?

No, because whilst it won't make a huge difference at this age (and maybe in this sport) it's fucking it up for female sport in general.

But he’s not a girl

You can’t get a GRC until you are 18

I think denying her to compete with other girls is going to be better for her mental well-being than it will harm anyone potentially totally losing to her in a competition

How do you think lying to a child that they can change sex will help their mental well-being, NorfLondon16?

People can't change sex. Children should not be lied to that they can change sex. Boys should be allowed to show feminine behaviour and wear feminine clothes without being told that they are girls or that they can change sex to become girls.

Girls’ feelings are worth less than boys who think they are a girl. Same old misogynistic shite since time began.

The ignorance is big here. She is a girlsll, that is her gender.

I'm a strong feminist and advocate for equality. Therefore I believe in this girl's rights. To lose a competition cannot be compared to be denied ones identity. I'm sorry, but that is just ridiculous. 11 year old girls are not weaker/worse/inferior to 11 year old boys. But what I read here from the majority is that girls are weaker than boys. Not in my world.

The ignorance is big here. She is a girlsll, that is her gender.

And their sex?

The ignorance is big here. She is a girlsll, that is her gender

How about their biological sex?

11 year old girls are not weaker/worse/inferior to 11 year old boys. But what I read here from the majority is that girls are weaker than boys. Not in my world

And I’m going to ask again, do you understand precedence?

But what I read here from the majority is that girls are weaker than boys

Actually there are plenty of instances where women are physically weaker than boys. Which is why we separate sport by biological sex and not the feelz.

Competitive sport is one of the few areas where their biological sex is what matters.

11 year old girls are not weaker/worse/inferior to 11 year old boys

And at 12? 13? 14?

Biological boys are physically different to biological girls. Fact. To argue otherwise is plain stupid.

Of course many primary age DC can compete on a level playing field. There are mixed football fields.

But puberty changes all that and makes most male bodied people faster and stronger than most female bodied people. Which is why sport is segregated on the grounds of sex.

The type of clothes that those bodies are wearing is irrelevant and changes nothing. They can wear what they like, it won't stop it being unfair to the female bodied people if they have to compete with the male bodied people.

To lose a competition cannot be compared to be denied ones identity. I'm sorry, but that is just ridiculous.

No one is denying them their identity. They can still live as a girl, they just can't compete against biological girls as they have an unfair advantage.

I think denying her to compete with other girls is going to be better for her mental well-being than it will harm anyone potentially totally losing to her in a competition

And there you have it. Such rank misogyny it's difficult to believe. Girls just don't matter, do they?

I'm a strong feminist and advocate for equality. Therefore I believe in this girl's rights.

And there's the conflict. You believe in the rights of girls, but only those with a Y-chromosome.

Funny that.

This is an 11 year old child and as such the physical difference between the genders is little.

Yet

The ignorance is big here. She is a girlsll, that is her gender

What physical difference? Does this cognitive dissonance not give you a headache?

She is a girlsll, that is her gender.

Sport is separated by sex, not gender.

To lose a competition cannot be compared to be denied ones identity.

Female identity is being denied each time a man takes a woman's place because of some undefinable concept of womanhood that most women don't even relate to.

Can you answer a question for me, @NorfLondon16? This child, and his adoptive parents, think he's a girl because he likes to wear dresses and long hair with bows in. So their definition of a girl is someone who likes to look feminine. Do you think this is an accurate definition of a girl, or would you like to suggest a different one?

To lose a competition cannot be compared to be denied ones identity.

No one is denying this child's gender identity. They can identify as any gender they like.

They can't change sex, though.

I suppose by the same token, if one of the girls on a girls' team identified as a boy, you would say she wouldn't be allowed to skate with the other girls?

And there you have it. All our youngsters being categorised by how feminine they are and how masculine they are.

Such progress.

I'm a strong feminist and advocate for equality.

Why do you place the interests of biological and genetic males above those of biological and genetic females?

Not much of a feminist, are you, really?

But what I read here from the majority is that girls are weaker than boys. Not in my world

But but but... They are. Usually. It's not an insult or intended to be offensive to women but a scientific fact.

Biologically men are typically stronger and faster than women. Whether you choose to believe it or not doesn't change the fact.

Why do you think sport is segregated in this way if not to create equal opportunities for men and women?

Maybe not at 11 but as others have said, do we just say 'oh it's okay for now' and then in 2 years time tell her it's no longer okay? Or should girls who've dedicated their effort, time and often lives to perfecting a sport be pushed aside and have their opportunities damaged to save the feeling of another who is perfectly able to compete in their own sex category.

It's so utterly ridiculous to me that some people can't see how incredibly unfair on biological girls/women that would be.

Norf The ignorance is big here. She is a girlsll, that is her gender.

Here are 5 people who have xx chromosomes (thank you google).
Their genders are (thank you facebook):

Agender
Androgyne
Bigender
Gender non conforming
Neither

What SEX are they though?

They can identify as any gender they like.

They can't change sex, though.

And encouraging children to think they can change sex, and that they have somehow actually changed sex, just by saying 'I identify as' is harming all of them. The girls who are forced to play sports against boys, even though this makes for an unfair competition. The girls who are forced to accept the boy in their changing rooms. The feminine boy who is told that those feminine attributes make him a girl, setting him up for a lifetime of medication and surgery. The confused teenage girl who doesn't fit in and thinks her problems will be solved by identifying as male or non-binary - also heading for a lifetime of medication and surgery. All children are harmed by this toxic ideology.

oops. here are the five people.

As I said, they each identify as:

Agender
Androgyne
Bigender
Gender non conforming
Neither

I'm a strong feminist and advocate for equality.

Especially extra equality for people with XY chromosomes.

Therefore I believe in this girl's rights.

But not the rights of the girls competing in the correct category for their sex.

To lose a competition cannot be compared to be denied ones identity.

The competition is not their to validate the identity of an individual. It is there to test to see which of the children in the female category performs the best. Identity is irrelevant.

11 year old girls are not weaker/worse/inferior to 11 year old boys. But what I read here from the majority is that girls are weaker than boys. Not in my world

Women and feminism are done no favours by ignoring the very real biological differences in men and women. There is a reason sport is segregated by sex. Those differences matter, particularly when you are being tested against the same criteria.

The competition is not their to validate the identity of an individual. It is there to test to see which of the children in the female category performs the best.

This can't be said enough. The girls are not there to provide validation for a boy. Ultimately to their own detriment too. Ffs.