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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Stormzy AIBU

548 replies

MissChananderlerbong · 29/06/2019 09:40

Prepared to be told I'm being old and boring.
I enjoyed Stormzy's set, he's obviously a progressive liberal guy, and he seems like a good human.
So why the sexist lyrics?
"Finish on her face to top it off (ay)"
"If her friend is a dead ting, take one for the bredren"
"2 peng tings at the entrance" (just feels wrong calling women 'things')
If he was just another artist then fine, but he seems so principled in so many other ways. So I find this odd.

OP posts:
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Juells · 29/06/2019 11:05

Earlywalker
So do most singers. Black people in the spotlight are held to ridiculously high standards that just don’t apply to white celebrities.

I remember the exact same row in the media about a song by Robin Thicke. It has nothing to do with race and everything to do with contempt for women.

But again...men are always right as far as you're concerned.

SagAloojah · 29/06/2019 11:05

Ugh gross. Don't know who he is but he sounds like a sexist tosser from these those lyrics. I hope a peng ting pisses on his face in revenge.

alwayslearning789 · 29/06/2019 11:05

"YADNBU. He may not be at the very bottom of the cesspit in terms of being sexist, but he is still floating in the cesspit all the same."

This^

GreatOne · 29/06/2019 11:06

Yes @earlywalker Billie Elish is at glastonbury. Wonder if there will be a thread about her lyrics/song 'i just wish you were gay'
I dont know if a young black man would get away with that at all.
There's totally a bias to the standard people try to apply to Stormzy as a black man, but not to white artists, some of whom are even at the same festival this weekend

Pa1oma · 29/06/2019 11:11

GreatOne - My 11 year-old daughter has started listening to Billie Eilish. I can’t even make out the lyrics because the music has the effect of sending me into a comatose state. I’m totally depressed after a 15 minute drive home from school with that droning in the background. If you have anything to share about her lyrics, then please do so - or start a thread. This has nothing to do with race. Everything to do with artists who could initiate change, but don’t.

Juells · 29/06/2019 11:12

@GreatOne

What's wrong with the lyrics of that song? I've just googled, and there's nothing remotely wrong with it.

VivienneHolt · 29/06/2019 11:12

Ed Sheeran is a great example of this, actually. Stormzy raps about ejaculating on a woman’s face and it’s automatically perceived as something degrading and offensive, despite the fact that this is something some women do enjoy and willingly participate in.

Ed Sheeran on the other hand, king of the Nice Guy persona, gets a free pass despite multiple instances of toxic masculinity in his music.

“What’s your history? Do you have a tendency to lead some people on?”

That’s a bit problematic, isn’t it? Slut shaming a girl and suggesting that if she behaves in a certain way and then doesn’t follow through with sex, she’s deceptively misleading people.

Now how about this gem?

"Tell me that you'll turn down the man
Who asks for your hand
Cause you're waiting for me
And I know, you're gonna be away a while
But I've got no plans at all to leave
And would you take away my hopes and dreams?
Just stay with me"

This is a perfect example of the ‘Nice guys finish last’ trope, in which women are blamed for being too shallow and stupid to pick the good guy. See also:

"Now I don't wanna hate you
Just wish you'd never gone for the man
And waited two weeks at least
Before you let him take you
I stayed true, I kind of knew
You liked the dude from private school."

More slut shaming (‘just wish you’d waited two weeks’), more blaming women for picking men with perceived status (‘private school’) over Nice Guys who would love them and treat them right, more objectifying (‘let him take you’).

I’m sure I don’t need to tell you that these are tropes which are rife in incel / red pill circles, where deluded and women-hating men convince themselves that women owe them relationships and are unfairly withholding sex and affection. That is the community which spawned Elliot Rodgers, the man who cited women’s refusals to date him as his motivation for murder. Ed Sheeran is clearly nowhere near that extreme, but the same ideas clearly permeate his love songs.

I’m not trying to give Stormzy a free pass here. I think some of what he says is misogynistic. But it is perfectly valid to make the point that he is being held to a higher standard than other (usually white) artists whose work evidences misogyny, just in an apparently more palatable way. Misogyny in contemporary music is a widespread problem and a lot of artists are guilty of it. But three threads on mumsnet about Stormzy’s misogyny and none about other artists suggests that it’s not just concern for women’s rights at play here; it’s also an illustration that some artists are protected by white privilege, and we aren’t doing enough to recognise our own bias in respect of that.

aPengTing · 29/06/2019 11:13

Ed sheeran has some down right creepy towards women lyrics, full of trying to pressure them into relationships/ stalking because he’s a ‘nice guy’.
There are many examples of lyrics like that by white men, yet barely anyone says a thing about them.

Juells · 29/06/2019 11:16

There's some wonderful obfuscation going on in this thread, with men insisting that there's nothing wrong with misogynistic lyrics on the grounds that - AFAICS - 'they're not as bad as some others'. Or that black men are held to a different standard - no, Robin Thicke was hauled over the coals for his disgusting lyrics.

Doesn't matter, anything that concerns abuse of women will be argued forever and a day, 'not that bad' 'it's because' 'what about this' 'what about that'.

Earlywalker · 29/06/2019 11:18

What is interesting is how many of you see sexism to woman in almost everything, but are so quick to shut down any suggestion of unconscious racism without even really thinking about it.

aPengTing · 29/06/2019 11:21

I certainly don’t think stormzy should get a free pass because white men do it too, I’m just a bit Hmm that it’s mostly black men that get talked about.

(I actually don’t listen to and won’t allow any music that contains offensive messages towards females in my house).

GreatOne · 29/06/2019 11:21

What's wrong with the lyrics of that song? I've just googled, and there's nothing remotely wrong with it.

Context....
Women often turn down men's advances and are hit with the classic "I wasn't really interested. Bet she's a lesbian anyways'....just for declining their advances.
That's not okay for men to do that.
It's also not really ok for Billie Ellish to say she wishes her friend was gay just because he's not interested in her.

SagAloojah · 29/06/2019 11:24

What’s your history? Do you have a tendency to lead some people on?”

Ugh that's gross too. They're all twats.

Why don't women write this stuff? Or do they?

afternoont · 29/06/2019 11:26

He's a rapper what do you expect? There's much worse out thereGrin

tomtom1999xx · 29/06/2019 11:27

He’s shite.

GreatOne · 29/06/2019 11:27

@Juells
You're crediting Robin Thicke (a white man) with the work of a black man, Pharrell Williams.
Ironically.
Saying white men arent immune to being held to standard, when it was a song written and procuded by pharrell williams, doesn't support your point. Quite the opposite

cavalier · 29/06/2019 11:28

I like singers with passion ... he’s young and talented but just not my genre of music
I like his spiritual stuff and the backing singers sound amazing too

HattieHoe · 29/06/2019 11:28

Absolutely super proud of Stormzy. For us to get to 2019 and still saying "first Black British artist" is shameful and brings more to light why he is important. Representation matters.

...but yes, lets start a thread on..

GreatOne · 29/06/2019 11:29

three threads on mumsnet about Stormzy’s misogyny and none about other artists suggests that it’s not just concern for women’s rights at play here; it’s also an illustration that some artists are protected by white privilege, and we aren’t doing enough to recognise our own bias in respect of that

Thank you! ^this!

Pieceofpurplesky · 29/06/2019 11:30

I thought the set was awesome but just to point out that he was the first black SOLO artist as Skunk Anansie headlined in 1999.

GabsAlot · 29/06/2019 11:31

Im more bothered by the N word still being used byt anyway i enjoyed his set he seemed very humbled to be there

powershowerforanhour · 29/06/2019 11:32

I think I have posted here in the past about my bewilderment at the popularity of the crappy, unimaginative, repetitive, turgid heap of sexist shite that is Ed Sheeran's "Shape of You" but I hadn't heard the Nice Guy whingey ones...yeah sounds like a TRP/ MGTOW theme tune. As we all know, anyone who tells you he's a Nice Guy and snivels that girls don't want to shag him is probably dull at best, or a nasty misogynistic Felipe-type.

HattieHoe · 29/06/2019 11:34

three threads on mumsnet about Stormzy’s misogyny and none about other artists suggests that it’s not just concern for women’s rights at play here; it’s also an illustration that some artists are protected by white privilege, and we aren’t doing enough to recognise our own bias in respect of that

YES!!! 👏🏾👏🏾

NeckPainChairSearch · 29/06/2019 11:34

Some people will take offence at anything. They're song lyrics, get over yourself

Yeah. It's not like words and the same old perpetual messages and themes matter at all, is it? I'm not singling out Stomrzy here, incidentally. It's a wider and broader point.

I actually don’t listen to and won’t allow any music that contains offensive messages towards females in my house

Same.

DrinkFeckArseGirls · 29/06/2019 11:37

I thought the lyrics were: Then I finish with a facial just to top it off (ay)
I was wondering since yesterday what it meant - him ejaculating on her face or her sitting on his. Spoilt the song for me
🤷🏼‍♀️

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