‘Two-child limit taking toll on family life’

[SweetMelodies]

www.itv.com/news/2019-06-25/two-child-limit-taking-toll-on-family-life-study-suggests/

So the first detailed research into families effected by the 2-child policy, where tax credits are only paid for the first two children unlike in the past when it was every child, has taken place and has found that families are suffering as a direct result of this.

A lot of comments on SM seem to forget that many many working families are effected as well. Even some families with ‘above-average’ incomes used to be entitled to tax credits for a third or subsequent child.

Any thoughts on this? I have mixed feelings as to whether it will work on in the long-run or not. Of course we all know families who have carried on having babies with no thought because each child has meant another monthly tax credits sum... but then there are also the families who are going to face one unplanned pregnancy that could push them into poverty and make their other children suffer.

I’ve literally JUST read a thread from a woman (all children in high school) who is CHOOSING not to work as she HAS to walk her dogs everyday and thinks this is her job 😂😂😂😂😡*

Do you see the problem?

I was just on that thread. You don’t see the difference? That woman is being supported by her partner and isn’t expecting tax payers to fund her lifestyle.

Periodically I forget that mumsnet is full of overpriveliged middle class cunts. Then a thread like this happens

Really? Most of the people on this thread (myself included) have said there is no way in hell they could afford 3 kids so I don’t know where the over privileged part comes in?

I’ve literally JUST read a thread from a woman (all children in high school) who is CHOOSING not to work as she HAS to walk her dogs everyday and thinks this is her job

Which is absolutely fine if she isn’t claiming benefits. I didn’t work for 15 years. Looking after my DH, DCs, house and some volunteering kept me busy but I didn’t claim any benefits....

The 5 week thing in the universal credit is wrong though, I agree there. It needs to be calculated in the same way it used to be.

Which is absolutely fine if she isn’t claiming benefits. I didn’t work for 15 years. Looking after my DH, DCs, house and some volunteering kept me busy but I didn’t claim any benefits....

Exactly!! Not working isn’t a problem, it doesn’t effect anyone else if supported by a partner!

Honestly I’ve had periods where I haven’t worked and used savings (not benefits) and people are so bitter about it.

It isn't an issue for me. We get nothing anyway. We have one DS and hope for one more. We can provide really well for two but not three. Hence, we will stop.
We use contraception, so we've never had an "accident". Not sure how that happens, really. If you don't get on with the pill, surely you'd know that before it got to dc3. My husband wants a vasectomy if we have dc2. That's another way to ensure there isn't an accident.
I am all for people having as many kids as they want, as long as I don't have to pay for them. I want as many of my family's resources as possible to go to my family. To be honest, I am not concerned about other people's.

Just to be very clear she WAS claiming benefits. She could ‘afford’ not to work because of the CB and tax credits she was receiving.

We can argue all day about the necessity - or not - of having children, personal responsibility, contraception failure, etc., but the cold, hard, fact of the matter is that whatever you may think of people who have 'more children than they can afford' (regardless of background) there are, and there will be, a number of children who will suffer because of this policy.

You can judge the parents as much as you like but how you can effectively say the children affected deserve to live in poverty? The way some of you are carrying on it's quite clear you have no compassion for those children - it's almost as if you see them as lesser beings in comparison to your own offspring. It's a cliché but children don't ask to be born.

That’s thread is not real though so irrelevant.

@liverbird77
I want as many of my family's resources as possible to go to my family. To be honest, I am not concerned about other people's.

If your resources were wiped out for whatever reason how would you cope? Would you not hope to be supported by the state or do you think everything should be about the individual?

Periodically I forget that mumsnet is full of over priveleged middle class cunts
Oh STFU, you have absolutely no idea of other people's circumstances or what they have been through themselves. FYI it used to be a working class trait to take a pride in providing for your own family with only minimal government help, making sure they were fed properly and dressed smartly on very little money and resources.

Just to be very clear she WAS claiming benefits. She could ‘afford’ not to work because of the CB and tax credits she was receiving

Well she’s an example of why they need cutting then.

There won't be a planet to grow old in if there are too many people on it using up resources.

Ok. So if we cut the future labour source and the majority of the population becomes old, decrepit, and cannot support themselves... What would we do then? In the name of the environment, how far are we going to push the pendulum? Certainly the older people will be negatively impacting the environment as well. At a point, it starts getting ridiculous with how many new limitations we are going to fancy up and with no concrete proof that it will actually affect anything. Consider what is happening in America or China, do you think companies there will ever be stopped from destroying the habitat? I don't.

Our best bet is to try to use our education and scientists to invent direct solutions rather than try to control people on different parts of the planet which will never happen.

Before you give your two cents, take a good long hard look in the mirror and check your privilege.

I hate this judgemental, holier than thou statement, especially ironic when it comes from someone deploring others for judging and castigating them for not knowing about others lives and circumstances.

Valanice1989 Totally agree - I find it hard to believe there are women who still don't know that.

PatoPotato I don't need you to have multiple children to prop me up. I've been self sufficient all my life, having worked from 16 - 60 despite being disabled and in a lot of pain and when the time comes I am no longer able to cope, I will be taking myself off to Dignitas.

It’s always the pill. Funny that? I have a friend who got pregnant accident THREE TIMES on the pill taking it perfectly

It does seem weird that the pill fails more frequently than condoms do! Clinical trials show that the pill is more reliable than condoms are, yet in real life it seems to be reversed. I also don't know anyone who says they got pregnant while using LARC (although this is purely anecdotal).

No-one deserves to live in poverty, but there have to be controls somewhere - there is a limited amount of money in the pot and it needs to be shared around as equally as possible.
Benefits are there as a safety net only.

Just to be very clear she WAS claiming benefits. She could ‘afford’ not to work because of the CB and tax credits she was receiving.

And she was getting her arse handed to her

Ok. So if we cut the future labour source and the majority of the population becomes old, decrepit, and cannot support themselves What would we do then?

At have a net migration of 300,000 people per year. We have the equivalent of Oxford moving to the country every year. I think we’ll be fine when it comes to population.

At have a net migration of 300,000 people per year. We have the equivalent of Oxford moving to the country every year. I think we’ll be fine when it comes to population.

If immigration is the solution, which I'm fine with then people need to get rid of this idea of us not needing immigrants.

It does seem weird that the pill fails more frequently than condoms do! Clinical trials show that the pill is more reliable than condoms are, yet in real life it seems to be reversed

The pill is 99.7 percent effective with perfect use. This means that less than 1 out of 100 women who take the pill would become pregnant in 1 year.

It’s so rare and to have TWO “accidents” on the Pill is statistically pretty impossible, so when people come on and say “I got pregnant twice on the pill” they obviously weren’t taking the thing correctly.

If immigration is the solution, which I'm fine with then people need to get rid of this idea of us not needing immigrants

I’m not saying it’s the solution but to use the argument “who will pay for all the old people” is silly given the amount of immigration we do have.

We will always have immigration. There are so many people trying to come here. That figure is with a Conservative Government that was trying to limit immigration.

@underneaththeash No-one deserves to live in poverty, but there have to be controls somewhere - there is a limited amount of money in the pot and it needs to be shared around as equally as possible.

My worry is that the current government dont really care about poor people, they make tax cuts for the rich and reduce support to those in poverty.

My half baked solution to this is one of these two options:

1. All families are given assistance in the form of goods relating specifically to children's needs and vouchers that can only spent on kids stuff.

2. If not that, then for the first two children, child benefit is given. If you have any more, you given up the freedom of choice, and receive goods/specific vouchers for all 3+ of the children you have.

The children's needs are met, and there is a slight incentive to stick at two if you're either prideful about the matter, or dislike the conditions attached to additional state income coming to your family in the form of goods not cash.

Totally In 1997, ds was 2. I did a job share and dh was full time. We paid a mortgage, ran a car, paid for nursery and yes, it was tight, but doable. I was wiping bums in a residential home when I was 20 in 1986, and I'm sure even then I was getting £2.50 per hour in Devon.

The point is that if the government legislates for a living wage, then the reliance on tax credits should decrease as people earn more. The EU opposes state aid....what are tax credits but state aid to business by the back door?