‘Two-child limit taking toll on family life’

[SweetMelodies]

www.itv.com/news/2019-06-25/two-child-limit-taking-toll-on-family-life-study-suggests/

So the first detailed research into families effected by the 2-child policy, where tax credits are only paid for the first two children unlike in the past when it was every child, has taken place and has found that families are suffering as a direct result of this.

A lot of comments on SM seem to forget that many many working families are effected as well. Even some families with ‘above-average’ incomes used to be entitled to tax credits for a third or subsequent child.

Any thoughts on this? I have mixed feelings as to whether it will work on in the long-run or not. Of course we all know families who have carried on having babies with no thought because each child has meant another monthly tax credits sum... but then there are also the families who are going to face one unplanned pregnancy that could push them into poverty and make their other children suffer.

@totallycluelessoverhere I know that some selfish idiots aren't stopping. And that's their problem.
If their children are found to be neglected then the agencies should step in. They should not be handed more money for poor decision making

But the cost to the public purse and the human cost rot he innocent child of agencies stepping in will be absolutely enormous. If a child is neglected because the parents just cannot be arsed to get our of bed in the morning and provide adequate care for him then absolutely the agencies should step in. But clearly that is a parenting issue and not just a lack of money issue.
If the parents are doing their best bit just don’t have enough money to feed and clothe the child because they decided to have a child that they couldn’t afford (or could afford at the time time but their circumstances changed) then it is much cheaper for the public purse and better for the child for that family to be supported enough financially to keep them together.

I don’t believe that everybody innreveiptnof tax credits with 3+ children is a waste and irresponsible. Some people have change of circumstances beyond their control. Some people have had poor upbringings which affect their decision making when it comes to family size.
Times have changed and even people on reasonable incomes now struggle without tax credits.
Let’s remember, the childcare element of tax credits continues to be paid for every child, no matter how many you have as long as your income level qualifies you. The childcare element is usually more than the child element so we are still supporting people to have 3+ children through tax credits. Often we pay more in childcare tax credits than a person is earning.

“Got it in one about the corporations and wage slaves.
I see it all the time.
Zero hour contracts,minimum wage.
Wages standing still,bills going up”

I get this, I used to earn 30% above minimum wage 10 years ago and now I earn just 10% above for a lot, lot more work while my bills are around 25% higher.
And no I don’t want to get another job as I’ve trained for this one and can’t afford to train for another. I just want to be paid fairly for the work and extra work I do.

Sadly, this is the reason we may have to stick to just two children. My job is just too unpredictable to plan for the future. Whether it’s a conspiracy which stops the poor from having more children or not, it’s not fair on the children if we stretch ourselves too far.

But people aren’t stopping at two contraceptionismyfriend . You can keep repeating that they should stop at two all you like but it doesn’t change the fact that these children have been born / will still be born. Why you thinks shoild happen and what actually happens is morning always the same thing.

There was indeed an increased birth rate once Blair's big welfare state gained traction. This was considered a success at the time because of falling birth rates across Europe, but of course we really didn't know then what we know now about the ticking ecological time bomb of overpopulation.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-13809280

Could we not presume that the reverse is true?

Does anybody think the childcare element should be stopped if you have 3+ children or are we only demonising people who claim the child element?
What about circumstances where somebody only has one or two children but claims more in childcare tax credits than they earn? Are you saying those people shouldn’t have any children because they cannot afford to support them?
Not everyone can be a higher earner, we need carers, cleaners, teaching assistants, shop workers etc and we also live in a society where people expect higher pay for certain jobs.

When are you guys going to remove the sense of entitlement from the tax dodging rich?

Or do they not matter because you worship them?

Last I checked they were the ones making working standards worse through exploitative contracts like zero hours, outsourcing to third world slave labour, and hiding money offshore.

The lady two blocks away, with a few kids, does nothing compared to the rich old man's company lining politician's pockets so he can frack our communities to his heart's content! You guys have been brainwashed.

So start a thread about that. This is a bout the two child limit.
I can be in favour of the two child limit and in support of enforcing tax payments for corporations.

@totallycluelessoverhere absolutely spot on
People are stuck in a catch 22

Does anybody think the childcare element should be stopped if you have 3+ children or are we only demonising people who claim the child element?

At this rate you will probably get a Channel 5 Zombie tell you that all kids over 2 need to be ripped from school and NHS access. It's all about being "better" than them. That's it. It reminds me of that blue eyes/brown eyes experiment where for no reason one set of people start thinking they are better than the others because they have been brainwashed.

So start a thread about that. This is a bout the two child limit. I can be in favour of the two child limit and in support of enforcing tax payments for corporations.

It all goes hand in hand. You start plucking at the welfare state so it doesn't feed the unfortunate subsequent children born to parents who fell on hard times, then next you have to keep making more miserable choices until we become worse than America (see what has been happening to people on benefits in general). Telling disabled people they are fit for work, and not taking of care of children, it only benefits the corporations who need desperate people. It lowers the standards of all.

Swing of things this policy doesn't even effect me! I get more than the amount given for an extra child from my dad! Also if you read my original posts you will see why I have the opinion I do and I'm perfectly entitled to that opinion since I have actual life experience. But shows how lovely a person you are that you will pick on someone who was gang raped as a kid and had their education messed up because of it. Honestly who do people like you think you are?

I agree pato and only picking out certain elements of the tax credit system to demonise definitely smacks of deserving poor vs undeserving poor.

I currently claim Universal Credit and have a ten year old and a two year old. I have spent the last two years unemployed due to personal circumstances. We spent last year in a women's refuge.

Since then I've moved on with my life and have started working again in a trade I was in before and have since fallen pregnant, unplanned.

I've had a previous termination as a result of being raped. A termination was simply not an option for me this time.

I intend to claim for this third child by not claiming for my eldest. This is something that I can do and has been confirmed by universal credit. It means that I become entitled to having some of my childcare cost paid. This will allow me to continue working and I am a single mother.

I do agree with the two child limit. And there are exceptional circumstances to be able to claim a third, ie being raped. How much evidence you need, I don't know.

In all honesty, it's given me a massive incentive to go back to work and earn as much money as possible to come off of benefits. It's not something I want to rely on for a long time. Universal Credit also give a massive incentive to go into work, especially self employment. But I can say for sure that after this pregnancy, I won't be having anymore and won't allow myself to get into this situation again.

Totally clueless exactly bet they arnt against childcare vouchers which often costs the government more, so it actual saves the government money a single mum staying at home claiming than working for a crap wage and having the government subsidise them not only through HB tax credits but childcare vouchers aswell... And we all know how expensive childcare is! Bloody hypocrites especially the ones arguing we 'can't afford to pay for third kids'-well in that case how the hell can we afford bankrolling every working parents childcare even those who can afford to pay it themselves!

These women are snobs, the type who look down on others because they need to feel superior.

Ice-cream sense of entitlement? Who, the child who didn't ask to be born the third child of poor parents? How bloody dare they, eh?! Should have known better and chose to be born to middle class superior parents, right?

Parents don't even benefit because you know tax credits are a pittance and kids actually cost money you know? At least some people on this thread have an ounce of sense. Where's the outrage at the entitlement of the rich to not pay what tax is due?

Contraception, I agree. It’s not just about cost savings but removing the sense of entitlement some people have and forcing people to take responsibility for the choices they have made.

That makes me feel a bit sick. Basically, regardless of the economic success of this policy, let’s keep it because it punishes those ‘entitled’ poor people. Let’s make these mothers really face the consequences of their actions by watching their kids live in poverty. That’ll teach ‘em.

The fact it’s had to be done and the number complaining about it shows it was the right decision.

So the success criteria for anything is based on how many people complain about it?

@kamikazeee sounds like you’ve been through it recently. I sincerely wish you the best in rebuilding your life after such a traumatic period.

I know plenty of people who have made a conscious choice to stop at 2 children because of childcare costs/needing a bigger car etc.
I don’t see why it’s a different choice for those on benefits.

However we have now a generation who expects someone else to pick up the bill. When DD was little we want to a children’s centre and some of the other parents used to stamp their feet to get things/extra help. They expected it.

In the same way I do also know a GP (on £80k+) who was really annoyed when his child benefit was taken off him as he liked his ‘little bonus’ every month.

Kamikaze according to many here you can't afford children, are irresponsible and shouldn't expect the tax payer to pay for your kids. Accidents and unplanned pregnancies are rare apparently (think they ignore the fact some women and couples are extremely fertile) and you should abort as technically your third child is going to cost the TP through the childcare you are now going to claim.

Its quite hilarious really as that is actually going to cost the government more than just paying another weekly £60 tax credit payment!

I honest think contraception is a sociopath that gets the tingles thinking about all them disgusting lower class women broken mentally and Emotionally when their kids cry wondering why they didn't get presents from santa like those less entitled, more deserving middle class children at school. Shed probably get a kick out of seeing starving kids dressed in rags in the street. That will teach them not to be born to poor parents.

@2eternities 😂😂😂 that made my day. Thank you.

Shinesweet no, not thieving! Some will do genuine work on the side, I used to do Web Cam modelling before kids and sold exotic photos of myself, some will sell cannabis which should be legal anyway since it is in Canada and areas of US. some will do gardening or the odd bit of labouring etc how dare you insinuate thieving is the only thing folk do, it's mostly just junkies who do that and u don't really care about shoplifting from big corps tbh.

It's funny people here think helping the poor is unnecessary and that if we just stop, the poor will "learn their lesson" and stop being poor.

The benefit cap is £23k in London and £20k outside London. Child tax credits pay approx £55 per week per child and then families are entitled to child benefit (another £20/£13), housing benefit (which in London alone still runs into the hundreds per week if a family has many kids and lives in private rented accommodation) as well as loads of other subsidised/concessionary benefits for things like free school meals, access to leisure centres, reduced utilities etc.

A family earning £40k in London would be no better off since they would have to pay for things like rent from their taxed wages and after all tax/NI/travel/lunch costs have been taken off since they would not be entitled to anything and are penalised for working.

So who is actually the "poor" family?

No Not a troll good attempt at deflection though.