‘Two-child limit taking toll on family life’

[SweetMelodies]

www.itv.com/news/2019-06-25/two-child-limit-taking-toll-on-family-life-study-suggests/

So the first detailed research into families effected by the 2-child policy, where tax credits are only paid for the first two children unlike in the past when it was every child, has taken place and has found that families are suffering as a direct result of this.

A lot of comments on SM seem to forget that many many working families are effected as well. Even some families with ‘above-average’ incomes used to be entitled to tax credits for a third or subsequent child.

Any thoughts on this? I have mixed feelings as to whether it will work on in the long-run or not. Of course we all know families who have carried on having babies with no thought because each child has meant another monthly tax credits sum... but then there are also the families who are going to face one unplanned pregnancy that could push them into poverty and make their other children suffer.

What nasty jealous people, with no empathy at all.
Nasty and jealous to agree with a cap on 2 children but supportive of increasing the welfare state in other areas so those affected by illness and disability get extra over people who choose to have kids they can't afford because they feel entitled to have baby number 4?
Nasty and jealous to think all adults should consider their financial situation before bringing a new life into the world?
Nasty and jealous to think there should be a stronger welfare state in places and things like CAMHS should be funded better before we give endless payments to those who want to bring more kids into the world without the means to provide?

Very mean and nasty. How dare anyone think the welfare state is a brilliant thing and should be spent in other areas rather than subsiding people having multiple children they can't afford.

Mumsnet is quite bad at times for assuming that 'woman has a different opinion of a situation so must be jealous'. It's a bizarre view.

My dog he was also refused due to age! We are in our mid late 20s and we're told we are too young and don't have enough children. A girl iIknow I lived in a hostel with was refused until after her fifth child because of her age, they finally agreed she is very fertile and could have the OP after the fifth one! She's a Christian and doesn't believe in abortion and why the hell should she. She also had an abusive childhood was adopted and her first was Conceived thrpugh rape in the hostel we met at when we were 17 she also has learning disabilities but manages fine, she deserves a medal not judging by those who will never walk in her shoes.

KylieMinoguesHotPants
What bizarre reasoning
If you are using Donny Osmond and Michael Jackson as your argument it is very poor. The world would not have been a worse place without either of them but particularly MJ

Kashali
Jealous really.
I would think as you say you are a caring person you should be thinking more of the poor cases where a single mother goes on to get in with some no mark boyfriend who goes on to kill the child.And the same so called mother sticks up for the boyfriend.
That’s where throwing benefits for having a kid when you couldn’t really be arsed about a child but hey free house and money.

Yvla it's not just rape Conceived children exempt it's children born from abusive relationships yet you think that's rare? And that it's uncommon for women especially poor ones with little options to have the chance of leaving!? Jesus how out of touch with reality are you. There are many women entitles to that money but can't get it because they can't leave their abusive partner your know with those services being cut to the bone? Keep regurgitating crap about responsibility etc still doesn't justify your wish to punish the most vulnerable women and kids in this country. There are some evil posters on this thread for sure, you know being financially stable or well off doesn't make you a decent person,that's for sure. Doesn't make you a better more capable mother than worse off women either, trust me.

Shines showing your nasty side there, how dare you suggest being on benefits means you'll let a man abuse your child you think it's just poor people who abuse kids!? Ha!!! Some of the most disgusting pedophiles were from middle class families Richard Huckle is one and there was another one called Matthew something sentenced for forcing girls to abuse themselves and blackmailing them he was well educated with a good job you absolute snob lol!!

Tax credits are just a government subsidy to business that they shouldn't have. They should be scrapped and the minimum wage raised. Then many working families in this country wouldn't be reliant on benefits anymore.*

Totally agree with this.

And I’d add that if the government properly funded childcare, we wouldn’t be in the situation where hard working families, or families where they’d LIKE to work, were so reliant on benefits. Or deciding they can’t actually afford to have a child.

I don’t know ANY woman who has multiple babies for the benefit income. I do know lots of women who made the economic decision to leave work because the cost of childcare made working impossible. Then there are all the financial repercussions of giving up work to raise kids, which disproportionately affect women.

The system as it is makes it really difficult for hard working people to not rely on benefits.

Also, I don’t want to be part of a system which says women have to earn a certain amount of money before they’re morally allowed to have children. If we’re expected to earn enough to afford childcare and living expenses on top of that, it’s setting a ridiculously high level of income before a woman is able to have children without it being ‘at the taxpayers expense’.

to all the lively compassionate and caring posters here who have fought the corner for the countries most vulnerable people. People like you restore my faith in humanity and the world my children are growing up in. And to all the smug, privileged, heartless, out of touch ivory tower dwellers here, well what can I say, you may have money but you cannot ever claim to be decent human beings.

Makes me LOL seeing posters on higher than average incomes claiming they can't afford 2/3 children,no you just don't want to downsize your flash finance car and foreign holiday schedule, That doesn't mean you can't afford kids it means a family isn't your priority material items are.

2eternities
Yeah you’re quoting two cases.Both sexual abuse,not done in the home.
I am talking murder in the home.

*Shine that is disgusting. I'm glad I'm not you.

I am from foreign parts and what always stikes me on this type of threads is how anti-child the British society is. Children are seen as a burden, the inconvenience, the wider society resents investing in the younger generation in any way, be it schools, extra curricular activities, subsidised childcare. It is seen as the problem and cost for the parents and the parents alone to bring up the next generation that the whole society will benefit from. No wonder people don’t want to take on the responsibility to have/raise children. It is incredibly hard work, and with no support can tip one over the edge. We have all the PND etc now because it is no longer a village raising a child, but the parent/s on their own. And it is a big undertaking.

Do people honestly fail to see the consequence of aging society with no fresh blood invigorating it, driving the progress? Or maybe they want the robot to change their nappies, wash and feed them in their nursing home after a long life of selfish enjoyment?

2eternities
Not everyone here has money.
But many are sick of knocking their pan out working to make ends meet while others who are not working get money thrown at them.
And that really is the bottom line.

2eternities
Trust me I’m glad I’m not you.

Shine

But many are sick of knocking their pan out working to make ends meet while others who are not working get money thrown at them.

Yep, jealousy, of something that isn't even true. Jealousy, gets you nowhere, just makes you bitter.
So, yep, glad I don't think like you, it must be a very sad life and I pity you tbh.

I really don't get why on Mumsnet people assume people on benefits are vulnerable and people who work are smug and out of touch, so weird. Oh, and that everyone who works has masses of disposable income- are these people even in the real world?

Also, do people not realise that human biology is in direct conflict with the society’s ideas of ‘being able to afford children’. Women are in their fertile prime in their late teens/twenties. Who can afford anything at this age?

If you go down the route of building a financial foundation first, you would probably get to a desirable position by your mid/late thirties and forties. Female fertility is not that great at this point and the risks are higher for both mother and baby. Everybody I know who had their first baby during that time had some sort of complication, either with the baby, or during pregnancy, labour or postnatal recovery. Younger women handle it so much better, sleepless nights are easier, recovery quicker etc etc

But nobody wants to support mothers any more. The village have removed themselves from the business of raising a child. No wonder mothers of younger children are often at breaking point.

No sense in any of it.

Up to 22 weeks everyone has a choice whether to have a child or not.

Kashali
Bless you,oh did I say I knocked my pan out,no.But I see many who do.
No if you can’t beat them join them and that is exactly what I have done.So really I feel like I am watching this all from above.Thats observing not better than others snob before you want to pull that card.
So no not jealous.Jealousy is a disease and I ain’t got no diseases.

I’d you get pregnant “Accidentally” and choose to have it - that’s your choice no one elses

Of course people on benefits are vulnerable, this is because they don't have the money that rich people have. IF that was the case they wouldn't be on benefits, and not vulnerable, but secure.

But so are many people who work, or are they all rich? No one on zero hour contracts, temporary contracts or being made redundant? Its just staggering that so many people don't acknowledge the middle; those who work but aren't well off, you're either poor and vulnerable or rich and privileged. It's not a competition, and I think benefits should be there to support those who need it, but also that not everyone who works is comfortable, rich and not vulnerable, ridiculous.

Sandybval
Spot on
I think the poor and vulnerable really do think like this,not everyone obviously.Their belief is that unless you are on benefits you are obviously rich and just jealous.

One more thing to note:

When you strip the welfare state, you make working conditions worse for all of us. There is nothing that multinational corporations love more than a bunch of desperate people forced to work under horrible circumstances. Do things like this and Brexit, then kiss all those socialist goodies like breaks, holiday, and job security goodbye!

Like I said I have never been on benefits, but that does not mean I as well as the rest of the people who work do not benefit from them! Please open your minds and stop being brainwashed by corporations who want you to remain desperate wage slaves!

Please open your minds and stop being brainwashed by corporations who want you to remain desperate wage slaves!

Me and my dh love you, whoever you are.