‘Two-child limit taking toll on family life’

[SweetMelodies]

www.itv.com/news/2019-06-25/two-child-limit-taking-toll-on-family-life-study-suggests/

So the first detailed research into families effected by the 2-child policy, where tax credits are only paid for the first two children unlike in the past when it was every child, has taken place and has found that families are suffering as a direct result of this.

A lot of comments on SM seem to forget that many many working families are effected as well. Even some families with ‘above-average’ incomes used to be entitled to tax credits for a third or subsequent child.

Any thoughts on this? I have mixed feelings as to whether it will work on in the long-run or not. Of course we all know families who have carried on having babies with no thought because each child has meant another monthly tax credits sum... but then there are also the families who are going to face one unplanned pregnancy that could push them into poverty and make their other children suffer.

@Contraceptionismyfriend
No. I was groomed by a drug user, who was in fact old enough to be my father, straight after I had left my first relationship with a chap who raped and assaulted me.

It wasn’t a choice. I wasn’t in a great place.
Drug BF didn’t physically assault me so In my young niave mind him spending all my money and having a tantrum anytime I wanted to do anything wasn’t actually bad

I have since had extensive counselling. But my experience isn’t unique.

Please stop being so cruel. Shit stuff can and probably will happen to us all

@Contraceptionismyfriend
MOST OF THE TIME THE BEST PLACE FOR KIDS IS WITH THEIR FAMILIES

BEING POOR ISNT FUCKING ABUSE

HELP PEOPLE TO HELP THEMSELVES!!

But there is change in the air.
Universal Credit taking over from the raft of all the other benefits.
Child reaches a certain age,you are expected to get out and look for a job.No sitting on benefits while you get pregnant again and again when required to look for work,as you will only get two for free.
Don’t pay your utilities,they can and will apply to have it taken out of your Universal Credit.
It’s tightening up,but it takes years for the message and understanding to get through that the free ride is over.

@contraceptionismyfriend I think I see where we really differ here. I believe that children are the responsibility of society, not just the parent. A child cannot chose to whom they are born or to what circumstances they are born into. It is the responsibility of a social and moral society to ensure that all children are cared for to a basic level, both in terms of access to the basics needed to live (so not in poverty) and in access to education and healthcare.

And where do you suppose we put the hundreds of thousands of children living below the poverty line?

And do you not think it might be cheaper/better for society to financially support children (not parents, children) than to remove them from otherwise good parents?

I hope you’re never in a shit position yourself, it can happen to anyone.

Allowing a child to eat out of a bin is abuse. No child deserves to stay with parents who can't sustain their most basic needs.

But there is change in the air. Universal Credit taking over from the raft of all the other benefits. Child reaches a certain age,you are expected to get out and look for a job.No sitting on benefits while you get pregnant again and again when required to look for work,as you will only get two for free. Don’t pay your utilities,they can and will apply to have it taken out of your Universal Credit. It’s tightening up,but it takes years for the message and understanding to get through that the free ride is over

Repulsive that you think people living in abject poverty is something to celebrate.

I see the states responsibility to educate and provide health care. I love that we have a safety net. However I strongly believe that that safety net has had the absolute piss ripped out of it for a long time.
I believe it's bred a culture of dependency that now means adults don't believe their circumstances or children are their responsibility.
I welcome a system that holds every person accountable and has expectations on them.

And people wonder why the right is becoming so popular in the votes. People are sick and tired of being shouted down as though they were nazis and the hysterical pathetic hyperbole being shoved down as gospel.

FrisbyMouse I couldn't agree more with this statement: I believe that children are the responsibility of society, not just the parent. A child cannot chose to whom they are born or to what circumstances they are born into. It is the responsibility of a social and moral society to ensure that all children are cared for to a basic level, both in terms of access to the basics needed to live (so not in poverty) and in access to education and healthcare.

But I also can't help but feel that something needs to be done to discourage anyone who can't afford it from having more than 2 children.

Once children are born we must ensure their basic needs are met but this will become more and more difficult as budgets are stretched.

I'm guessing the children of high earning parents are more likely to grow up to be high earners (because children tend to aspire to the level of lifestyle of their parents). If nothing is done to try to even up the number of children had by high earners (which is falling?) Vs low earners, there is going to be less going into the taxes pot yet the same or more coming out of it.

As you can tell, my thoughts on this are totally mixed up. I feel conflicted about it.

I think you’re confused @Contraceptionismyfriend the people ripping the piss are the posh bastards who have billion pound tax breaks, not the single mums, and low wage working families who wait patiently for their 70 odd quid in benefits so that they can top up the key metre and have something other than watery smash and ketchup for supper for the twelfth night in a row.

It takes a village and it’s important we acknowledge our villages have got shitter.

Up until 2011, the majority of rental properties in the U.K. were social. The aim of social housing was originally to be secure housing that EVERYONE would aspire to live in.

Unfortunately over time these got sold and “affordable rents” went up from 50 to 80 percent of FMV. pushing up the price of private rentals.
This paired with the cost of living rising way quicker than wages means people are stuck. It’s not easy and it’s not a laugh being poor.

People now have it harder than they have had in decades.

It takes nothing to be kind. But if you are going to be cross, maybe be cross with the millionaires dodging tax, or the Tory politicians condemning abortion and poor people having kids. Be cross with thatcher for selling our social housing stock and private landlords for charging double your average monthly mortgage cost for a damp flat, or David Cameron for not funding more sure starts. But please don’t be cross at poor people. It’s much shitter for us than it is for you.

@contraceptionismyfriend
No, the distortion of the facts is in that very concept that the benefits system has bred a culture of dependancy. Something that is exploited by the more right wing leaning media outlets. It makes good news and sells more newspapers. The actual cost to the tax payer of this supposed underclass is exceedingly small.

I am happy to accept a system that has a minority of abuses, if the overall gain to society is a net positive.

@Thingsdogetbetter, why once a couple have 2 children do they not have a vasectomy or sterilisation? They know now they will not get benefits for a third child so it is their responsibility to make sure they don't have any more if they can't afford to.

If every couple stopped at 2 which they would if they were concerned about the future of the planet then if their circumstances changed it wouldn't matter would it?

Well I'm happy to accept a system that provides a generous safety net to a maximum of two dependents. I believe that's more than fair.

I'm really getting to be of the opinion that people like Contraceptionismyfriend are the ones who shouldn't be allowed to 'breed'. I hope they don't expect care in their old age due to frailty or dementia because, quite frankly, if they do then they should have planned their aging process much better so why should we have to put in the money, time and effort to fix their mistake?

I'm guessing the children of high earning parents are more likely to grow up to be high earners (because children tend to aspire to the level of lifestyle of their parents).

No. The children of high earners are more likely to grow up to be high earners because of their contacts, not because they are more intelligent or talented. Opportunity is only ever bought, never earned. That's why we're in the mess we're in.

Sinkgirl
But it should never have been allowed to get like that in the first place.
The more you give,the more some will take.
We should be going back to you support what you have want and need,not all that and support those that don’t help themselves but expect to piggyback off others.

@Alltheprettyseahorses too right

I hope they don't expect care in their old age due to frailty or dementia because, quite frankly, if they do then they should have planned their aging process much better so why should we have to put in the money, time and effort to fix their mistake?

I don't expect care in my old age because I fully intend to end my life before that, but I am currently in a country where you're expected to do that, too, in addition to paying for your own kids.

Contraception,so right about education and health care being the responsibility of the state,and the safety net going from being a safety net to a massive way of life for so many.

Mouse it is not exceedingly small,not in terms of financial or social or anything else.

@Alltheprettyseahorses
🤔 YOU may feel that way but I can assure you that myself (and I imagine many other reading this thread) do not!

Whispers to @Contraceptionismyfriend** - These threads are absolute magnets for the entitled grabby irresponsible people you’re talking about. They’re not going to agree with you because that would be admiring that sticking their hands out to the state rather than taking responsibility is wrong! And they’re ALWAYS right. 🙈😂🙄🤯

But it should never have been allowed to get like that in the first place.

I agree, when it comes to tax dodging corporations!

The more you give,the more some will take.

Exactly. Shareholders expect year on year growth, how is that sustainable without squeezing the working class to a pulp??

We should be going back to you support what you have want and need,not all that and support those that don’t help themselves but expect to piggyback off others.

And no more bailouts or bankruptcies for the rich.

(I'm just showing you where your comment should be directed btw).

@Wereeaglesdare

It is sad how brainwashed people have become against the most vulnerable and innocent people of our country. Begrudging children, FFS.

*admitting

• Honestly, if you’re anything like me just leave them to their grumbling about their financial situation they’ve likely gotten themselves into and get on with your life. You can lead a horse to water ... but you can’t teach it to make good choices or not be an entitled CF! returns to sipping drink by Italian Lake

These threads are absolute magnets for the entitled grabby irresponsible people you’re talking about. They’re not going to agree with you because that would be admiring that sticking their hands out to the state rather than taking responsibility is wrong! And they’re ALWAYS right. 🙈😂🙄🤯

Yeah fuck those irresponsible poor people, they should have known better than being poor! If we stop giving money to them, they will learn their lesson and stop being poor! They should have just called their daddy for a job as long as they promised to stay in rehab and get off coke. You know, bootstraps!!