‘Two-child limit taking toll on family life’

[SweetMelodies]

www.itv.com/news/2019-06-25/two-child-limit-taking-toll-on-family-life-study-suggests/

So the first detailed research into families effected by the 2-child policy, where tax credits are only paid for the first two children unlike in the past when it was every child, has taken place and has found that families are suffering as a direct result of this.

A lot of comments on SM seem to forget that many many working families are effected as well. Even some families with ‘above-average’ incomes used to be entitled to tax credits for a third or subsequent child.

Any thoughts on this? I have mixed feelings as to whether it will work on in the long-run or not. Of course we all know families who have carried on having babies with no thought because each child has meant another monthly tax credits sum... but then there are also the families who are going to face one unplanned pregnancy that could push them into poverty and make their other children suffer.

If anybody told me to not have a child because I couldn’t afford one I’d tell you where to shove your opinion.

You are fully entitled to have as many as you want, providing you pay for them.

I would tell you where to shove your opinions if you are suggesting that you should be entitled to have as many children as you want and expect to receive other people's tax to pay for them.

The message is clear, if you have a third the cost of raising them is down to you. It's not rocket science and presumably the majority of adults have the mental capacity to understand the consequences.

Every day on here I read about 'surprise' pregnancies despite
using concentraception and I say that's bullshit.

Why is it too much to ask that people take some responsibility for their actions and choices, especially when contraception is free?

Because we have had 20+ years of people being lectured about their entitlements and rights and nothing about their responsibilities by the nanny state. A captive client state will provide endless votes.

@emeraldshamrock. The majority of those families are already working. And limiting support at working tax credit level only moves the cost to society of those children elsewhere - making it the problem of future governments. (direct result of our 4 year political cycle)

The 2 child policy is a political vote winner - nothing more. It exposes the dark underside of the Conservative government like no other policy they have implemented.

The estimated 'savings' of this policy have been projected to be 1 billion by 2020. The UK Social Security budget is 222 billion. (most of which is pensions) - but most of that 1 billion actually sits with the Dept of work and pensions as tax credit savings.

My point that in terms of macro economics 1 billion savings is nothing... Nothing... But is everything to the poverty and the social problems it creates.

@MrsFrisbyMouse This isn't just about economics. There is a far greater cost to the environment. We absolutely shouldn't have any policies that encourage people to have more than 2 children.

@patopatato

Completly agree with everything you saying!
but it's like your trying to translate to brainwashed people. The people who are replying spouting the same old regurgitated bullshit from there shitty media sources.
You can't make these people see the humans behind the headlines they choose to not think about Sally. Sally is just a big inconvenience to them and another reason to be mad at the world and how unfair it is, when ironically they are supporting the super rich.
Yes tell a child how their parents are failing them instead of actually doing anything to help them. Mummy and daddy are. Shit Sally that's why there's no food in your belly? Sick. I like your name @contraceptionismyfriend let's hope it's your best friend because your ideas are proper messed up as far as children go. Children should suffer the consequences of their parents. This is like reading something from the victorian era.

Let us not forget hard working parents claim these benefits to support them to work!!!! also to try and better themselves!!!!

@tazzarazza that's a completely different argument alltogether and not really relevant here. The government isn't saying don't have more children because of the environmental cost.

@Sicario

“My heart sinks every time I read a thread on here featuring someone who is expecting a baby with a no-marks man, with no money, an unstable home environment and a bleak looking future. I want to scream STOP HAVING CHILDREN to all those men and women.

I don't understand why anyone would be so stupid as to have children they cannot afford to support and raise. Yes, accidents do happen, but most of these situations are choices not accidents. It makes my blood boil.”

What do you want them to do? Have fucking abortions?
I’m as pro choice as they come, but it should be a choice once they were concurred, I was pressured into abortion by a waster when I was twenty one, and I spent 3 years trying to kill myself because I had killed my baby trying to be responsible

@Nat6999 nobody on this bread has said that benefits in your situation shouldn't be available - in fact many have said that's exactly the situation they're designed for!

It's not the same as having two kids you can't afford to raise yourself and deciding on having a third.

I'm not currently in receipt of benefits but we couldn't afford more than two children so we didnt have more than two. Why should anyone else be exempt from responsibility for their choices?

*thread not bread!

Children are the sole responsibility of their parents. If those parents are failing as parents then maybe we should start looking at forced sterilisation.

Pinkcarrots
You got it,in fact I would say it has be going on for well more than 20 years.
And the more that is given by the state the more that is expected.
End result,it is more expensive for everyone.The money just trickles upwards.
Do you know how many tens of billions are paid every year in housing benefit.Much of it going to private landlords.Pushing the cost of housing up,both to buy and rent.
Many get subsidised to keep up with the cost of living.
So many more are being dragged into the top up with benefits because of the massive zero hours min wage gig economy.
So a company will make massive profits on the back of cheap labour all the while employees are being topped up massively by all manor of benefits and credits.
There is not the money any more to keep paying out for people just to take take take.

@contraceptionismyfriend
I do hope you're just being goady. Where would a policy like that end? I know, if you have a disease that genetic and has heritability then maybe you should be sterilsied because your children will cost the NHS money, or what about a low IQ which limits your job prospects - you shouldn't be allowed to have children either. I think we have seen where this kind of thinking ends up.

@Contraceptionismyfriend you’re an actual see you next Tuesday aren’t you?
Peoples circumstances change. I had 37k I’m my current account six months before I got pregnant. I grew up with my Daddy buying me everything, clothes, computers, puppies, ponies. Whatever. I got As at school and when one of my siblings didn’t my parents just paid for extra tuition at school. I had been to a good uni with a great degree about to start my Bar course (as in barrister, not barmaid) I started dating a man on drugs with a shite job paying for his bills and parties and cars.
I probably wouldn’t have failed my child. I was just young, and abused.

Had that man been different my unexpected pg would’ve been such a blessing.

I don’t wish you ill, not at all. But maybe it would help you see, hard times can happen to any of us.

I don't actually believe in forced sterilisation. But you can't have it both ways.

You can't allow people to breed to their hearts content with unlimited funds. There has to be a cut off. There is always a sob story on why someone lost everything. Or why someone can't work.

When how many times is it really down to piss poor management.

Adults are responsible for themselves. They need to take care of what they have and what they do. It is not the states job to clean up every time.

Shinesweetfreedom - Absolutely spot on. All this propaganda basically so that large companies and private landlords can be subsidised by the taxpayer and make huge profits. We don't need any more people, the earth is already overcrowded and we certainly don't need to hugely subsidise minimum wages with tax credits and housing benefit so that the people like Philip Green and Jeff Bezos can make huge profits at the expense of working taxpayers.

@Isbrexitoveryet you chose a man you knew was on drugs?

I couldn't agree more, Emerald and Silvery. Now the message is out there, don't expect increased benefits for more than 2 children. Never seen in real life a place where there are so many 'contraceptive failures' (usually involving a man who's a completely useless wanker) who 'don't believe in abortion' as there seem to be on MN.

And dear god, it's not NO benefits at all, it's no extra for more than three children with one born after April, 2017. I fail to see how this is some Dickensian policy. Plenty of warning, third born after April 2017. Everyone has a sob story. Everyone has a cross to bear. Don't see what's draconian about not enabling people to over-breed.

@OralBElectricToothbrush according to MN the effectiveness of contraceptions is around 3%

Seriously where do you draw the line? Having a 2 child policy seems so reasonable doesn't it. But surely 1 is better? Actually I know - no-one should expect to have state support for any children, that will stop the buggers breeding and spending our hard earned taxes. All a bit dystopian for my liking.

@contraceptionismyfriend

And you chose to make a comment about forced sterilisation which by the way is just disgusting, shame on you. Are you from the handmaidens tale!? What planet do you live on

The OP was offering a different view point hardly think it's fair to judge her on her past when she states she was in an abusive relationship.

@Wereeaglesdare read the thread. It's been mentioned a few times in the hysterics.

Because of course anyone in favour of not supporting endless offspring is in favour of forced sterilisation. Yawn.

The UK. Where I do not believe everyone has the right to lay back and pop out as many burdens as they wish and not pay for them.

If she got with him knowing he had a drug habit then that's on her as well.

People are not expected to posses any common sense anymore.

So hopefully those children rightly reserve their anger for their selfish parents and then grow up knowing that they require common sense and restraint as adults.

JFC

Totally fine to let children eat out of bins and have holes in their shoes, it will teach them to be responsible.

Unbelievable

If children are eating out of bins then they should be removed from their abusers.