‘Two-child limit taking toll on family life’

[SweetMelodies]

www.itv.com/news/2019-06-25/two-child-limit-taking-toll-on-family-life-study-suggests/

So the first detailed research into families effected by the 2-child policy, where tax credits are only paid for the first two children unlike in the past when it was every child, has taken place and has found that families are suffering as a direct result of this.

A lot of comments on SM seem to forget that many many working families are effected as well. Even some families with ‘above-average’ incomes used to be entitled to tax credits for a third or subsequent child.

Any thoughts on this? I have mixed feelings as to whether it will work on in the long-run or not. Of course we all know families who have carried on having babies with no thought because each child has meant another monthly tax credits sum... but then there are also the families who are going to face one unplanned pregnancy that could push them into poverty and make their other children suffer.

OK so I get pregnant with my third child because my contraception failed. My partner walks out and I have three little people to cloth and feed with no maintenance from dad for whatever reason. So what then my only option is to get an abortion or have nothing to live on?

Do you people not realise how backwards thinking that is. On financial grounds I couldn't ever justify to myself having an abortion but that is MY own beliefs I would never judge. But financial grounds aren't enough for me to stop a life that wants to live. What about religious women. My nanny has six children because she was Catholic and contraception is not an option? Also what about the after affects on mental health of an abortion and grieving a loss will that not bring more cost in to the equation.

My mum got cb and tax credits because even working most nights as a nurse and trying pay the mortgage she had no other help. There are three of us, so would she have to pick who got the new clothes or who got one less present?

Babies come when they come. The same women who wait until their career kicks off or until they are in the best financial situation, quite often have problems conceiving because they left it to late and with that comes an argument for geriatric mums and birth defects.

You are all talking in unrealistic terms as I've said people will get pregnant regardless its what we are on this planet to do like every other species. Not to mention the strain on the NHS. You people who would dole out abortions do you have any idea of the actual cost behind them?

@Ginger1982 But going to work full time and leaving a child who you so love and want to provide for with strangers every day is perfectly lovely? So your child can be clothed in the best brands and have holidays abroad twice a year? Give it a rest, children want to be loved and there are provisions in place in this country to ensure they are clothed and fed.

You wouldn't exactly have nothing to live on in that scenario though would you were? You'd still get all the usual range of benefits that you'd be entitled to - no one is proposing that you are left on the streets.

Abortions are far cheaper for the state than 70+ years of healthcare. If your religion forbids you from having one, perhaps your fellow believers will be happy to make up the difference in benefit of going from 2 to 3 (or 6). The Catholic church, for instance, is quite wealthy.

And as for babies come when they come there is always contraception. Or abstinence.

*Babies come when they come.
*
No they come when you decide to have them, even if the initial conception was an accident. You have a choice.

This thread is so depressing. It's no wonder Trump gets away with creating concentration camps when so many people don't care if children are harmed as long as they get their chance to feel morally superior and punish the poor. Who cares if children go hungry as long as they are not your children, apparently.

@crazyasafox

Well said!

20 years ago I could afford to raise 3 kids as a single mum without tax credits.
House price rises and failure to increase wages with the cost of living are the reason why I can not support 3 children on one wage in 2019
Tax credits (working families tax credits previously, and now universal credit) are props because of the failure to increase my NHS wage at an appropriate rate. For 10 years I had a pay cut effectively.
You can not compare how families coped in pre tax credit days. The lives lived are not comparable.

Of course I could have stopped being a midwife of course, and earned more in a different sector. Would that have been better? Or am I seen as worthy of tax credits?

This thread is so depressing. It's no wonder Trump gets away with creating concentration camps when so many people don't care if children are harmed as long as they get their chance to feel morally superior and punish the poor. Who cares if children go hungry as long as they are not your children, apparently.
I can't believe this is a serious comparison.

People have a CHOICE whether to bring a life into this world. They are not entitled to pop as many as they want out on the grounds that someone else should fund their choices.

That is in no way comparable to what is happening in America.

What an absurd comparison.

What concerns me (as a believer in the welfare state) is how many people think it's their right for the state to subsidise their choices, however irresponsible. It's not hard to see how right wingers get pearl clutchy over welfare when there's people on this thread saying they are entitled to have children they can't afford because they want something to love.

Wereeaglesdare You could employ a local teenager, get a job.
No one is saying don't have more than 2, but don't expect the government to pay for more than 2.
My friend grew up in Poland with a single DM full creche was provided from 6 months and extra benefit but only if you worked. In Poland unless you're disabled you need to pay tax for years to qualify for a state pension, not enough contributions means no pension.
I think it gives a good work ethic.
I see people around here with 4 or 5 children, sometimes more depending on their culture getting €150 per DC a month CB, 220 single parent 350 couple for the dole with €28 per child on top.
While disability services are a shambles homelessness and housing crisis rages.
There is to many people to support now.

Who cares if children go hungry as long as they are not your children, apparently

I expect their parents to care enough to work their backsides off to ensure they don’t go hungry. Their children are no one’s responsibility but theirs.

If said parents genuinely cannot feed their children, through disability or illness, they have my sympathy and support. But those who fail to plan their family responsibly and expect others will foot the bill for their reproductive choices? Absolutely not.

The line surely has to be drawn somewhere, if you go to work there's plenty of people who wouldn't be able to comfortably afford more than 2 children; and contraception failures aren't that common that they account for huge numbers of children. Everyone has to live somewhat within their means, I wholly agree that everyone should be able to have the choice whether to have children regardless of finances, but 2 is reasonable, surely?

If said parents genuinely cannot feed their children, through disability or illness, they have my sympathy and support
I agree and I'd happily see an increase in these benefits where there are dependent children.

I'm not ok with the attitude of 'but I want 3 or 4 children so someone else should give me the money to do it'.

I agree and I'd happily see an increase in these benefits where there are dependent children.

Absolutely - I want the welfare state to be strict on who can receive these benefits precisely so they can be generous and effective for those who need them most.

Those who wait to have children because they can’t afford it clearly look at children as a step in their life rather than it being what their lives are about. Selfish. Children need love not material things and so they should be wanted for that alone.

This is one of the most bizarre posts I've ever read on MN. Love does not feed children, clothe them, or keep a roof over their heads. All those things require money. It's far more selfish to have children that you can't provide for.

OK so let's just routinely sterilise women after child number two shall we? And give men vasectomies. Unless they are comfortable they don't deserve the right to have a choice with their bodies.

And I'm actually not religious, but I know some people are who could not make that choice because they would be going against whatever God they believed in. People on here seem to lump everyone in to the one catagory. I am not cheating the system I pay my taxes my fella is on a low income. I will go back to work part time and in order to do this I need help with childcare I will still have to fund 40 a week extra and pay my rent and bills.

Yea I'm sure we can force religions to pay for raising children that's happened before... Babies do come when they come like that man in jurassic Park said "life finds a way" and it sure fucking does for them poor women who get pregnant on all kinds of birth control.

Not only that but when people have shit all money sex is one of the few luxuries us poor people allow ourselves because its fucking free.

Hey girls come back down from your ivory towers to spare a thought for your future doctors, nurses, teachers scientists. That poor little baby who god forbid any of your taxes goes towards could just save your life one day. Quite a lot of us third children around.

As for the idiots who won't ever vote labour. Goodluck with that our country is a shit hole now because of Conservative rule. I just hope your children forgive you when there paying your astronomical medical fees for your hip replacements and dementia tablets. Oh hold on your gunna prepare for all of that though aren't you.

@Emeraldshamrock

As I have stated previously I do have a job thanks! im on maternity leave. I've always had a job in many different sectors involving people. From delivering babies to looking after children with additional needs. To adults with mental health issues and the cuts I have seen are disgusting. And even when I was very ill I was not allowed sickness benefits because I would not quit my job.

Children bring a hell of a lot of happiness and whether you can afford them or not shouldn’t matter

What nonsense is this?

Here in the real world, all the cuddles in the world don’t keep food in children’s tummies, clothes on their backs, shoes on their feet, homes over their heads hot water in the taps, and blankets on their beds.

Loving your children is providing for them!

‘I can’t feed you or clothe you sweetheart. You’re hungry and cold and dirty... but never mind! You bring me so much happiness!’

Give me a fucking break!

OK so let's just routinely sterilise women after child number two shall we? And give men vasectomies. Unless they are comfortable they don't deserve the right to have a choice with their bodies.

This is just babble.

@sorrywhat I would rather pay less tax and have more resources for my own family.

Jurassic Park...FFS 😆

@isabelalinton, no in other words, you cannot possibly judge or comment on people who must rely on welfare/financial aid if you are coming from a position of privilege. When I talk of a position of privilege, I mean if you have never been in such a dire situation that benefits are the only way you can turn.

You cannot possibly judge or comment on people who must rely on welfare/financial aid if you are coming from a position of privilege.

Why ever not?!

Hey girls come back down from your ivory towers to spare a thought for your future doctors, nurses, teachers scientists. That poor little baby who god forbid any of your taxes goes towards could just save your life one day.

The ability of posters to see into the future and determine that these children are absolutely going to be one of the above, or cure cancer, or halt and reverse climate change is astounding. Such an emotive and demonstrably daft thing to say.

@Ginger1982

Had to refer to it. Needed to cheer myself up