‘Two-child limit taking toll on family life’

[SweetMelodies]

www.itv.com/news/2019-06-25/two-child-limit-taking-toll-on-family-life-study-suggests/

So the first detailed research into families effected by the 2-child policy, where tax credits are only paid for the first two children unlike in the past when it was every child, has taken place and has found that families are suffering as a direct result of this.

A lot of comments on SM seem to forget that many many working families are effected as well. Even some families with ‘above-average’ incomes used to be entitled to tax credits for a third or subsequent child.

Any thoughts on this? I have mixed feelings as to whether it will work on in the long-run or not. Of course we all know families who have carried on having babies with no thought because each child has meant another monthly tax credits sum... but then there are also the families who are going to face one unplanned pregnancy that could push them into poverty and make their other children suffer.

@hedgehogblues your a legend!! 😂

This thread bloody depresses me I've just had talks with my four month old baby about how we are never going to forget our roots or the people that need our help. Honestly Its just becoming clearer and clearer every Time I'm on here we will never get out of this government. Why hate the person who is just struggling like u. Bloody look at the royals, the government aparently we have just paid a shed ton for hazs new house.

Not being funny I have worked all my life and I can only claim maternity allowance because I switched jobs for the safety of my unborn baby (working with severe autism) so I need that to be propped up because 500 quid a month does not cut it. So if I had this situation where I am bettering myself and I am on my third child am I not entitled to a bit of help considering I have done my fair share. We are talking about a bloody safety net people.

You can't control the actions of other people so now we are going to watch kids starve because its not fair that I have to work and she gets things free. Its a tiny amount really and at the end of the day would I rather pay it to give her kids a better chance. Absolutely! No kid in this country should go hungry.

Your a bunch of cold bastards and this is exactly what is wrong. See there used to be this thing called community spirit where everyone helped each other out n cared for one another. Now its about keeping up with the joneses and if you get left behind then you stay behind. There are no real opportunities in this country anymore. If tory gets in again I'm out of here they will bring down your nhs, they will higher the retirement age, they will lower pensions. And then when ur done blaming other people everything you need for your safety net is pulled down.

I will agree there needs to be incentives to work but that starts in a different place not hacking away at the welfare system. I pray that you all wake up until this country is sold off in pieces.

Oh and for the bloody idiots who say you can't get pregnant by accident I was a mw Trust me you can get pregnant by accident. Or by your rapist or abuser or your much older boyfriend.

Two kid limit is entirely reasonable. Why should the tax payer continue paying for people to have kids when many from working families are being super careful because they can’t afford another.

Plus two is a sensible environmental limit. One to replace each parent to maintain and possibly slowly decrease our crippling overpopulation.

Fine, so lets make it optional then shall we? We all pay a predetermined basic rate of tax and those who choose can pay a higher rate to support people wanting benefits for those w more than 2 children.

Very, very many people have fewer children than they'd ideally like due to financial constraints. I suspect they'll not be over keen on subsidising others to do so.

That reminds me.... another great effect of this policy? Women who have to report a rape, and be questioned on it, if they want to keep benefits for a 3rd child.

So some poor woman gets raped, is pregnant as a result, and may (if she chooses not to get into a discussion with civil servants about who raped her and when) end up with a 3rd (or 4th) child, without many benefits...

But... what if there was no check, I hear some say - some of those feckless women will just claim they were raped so that they can keep their money!

This is where this policy leads to, with the state trying to police peoples morals

You can't control the actions of other people so now we are going to watch kids starve because its not fair that I have to work and she gets things free.

This is a big deal and it will eventually come to roost in the ballot box because people don’t like to work/pay tax so that their neighbors can have 3 or 4 kids and stay home.

You sound very angry. What are you so cross about?

I’m not angry at all!

I have paid an awful lot of tax, and if some of that was towards a young mum who made bad life choices so she can feed her third child then I am totally okay with that.

I’m happy you’re happy. Others are entitled not be totally okay with it.

Sorry but there are a vanishing few number of third children who are the product of rape, and fewer still of those mothers will not be heading straight to the clinic for the MAP of their own accord.

I have only read the first page @MediocreOmens I am shocked by your post. We could be in your shoes - in fact we were 3 years ago. We were also told we were likely infertile so had our choice taken away anyway (chose not to pursue IVF) then we had a shock unplanned pregnancy.
My now 2 year old is sat here with me and we're counting down to free nursery hours at age 3. When we found out we were pregnant we saved every penny we could, cancelled holidays etc and then sold everything we could. Family were very generous and bought us cots, car seats,prams etc but looking back if we didn't have that we could have made do we hand me downs or charity shop bargains if needed. Having a baby/young toddler etc is reasonably cheap overall (you dont need all the gadgets etc and a day in the garden is just a fun to them as a trip to legoland!!) And we have juggled part time work and part time nursery where needed and if you really cant afford nursery there will always be a friend you can pay for childcare (maybe a SAHP you know for example) or a childminder is cheaper than nursery. Please dont base your decision on whether to start a family solely on money - you will regret this. The hard times pass and you do just find a way to cope and come through without debt - believe me I know because I've been there and even if you did build a bit of debt once they're 3 and get free nursery hours you can pay that back down (just paid £1000 0%credit card off the other day - our only bit of debt gone now apart from mortgage). Just my 2 pence worth but your post really tugged at my heart strings.

Ive never quite understood the point of stopping CB at 3 children when the overall population is aging and the country as a whole NEEDS people to have kids.

This logic is absurd. So you think taxpayers need to pay people hundreds of thousands of pounds in child tax credits/extra housing benefit until their 3+ child is an adult in the hope that said child ends up paying more in tax and NI than they have cost the taxpayer over the years (and that means the costs to education, healthcare etc as well as all the benefits they would be receiving)? I think this is extremely unlikely.

There are millions of unemployed and underemployed people in this country already who could be retrained for all these jobs that apparently need to be filled rather than leaving them to languish on benefits.

Oops there was paragraphs when I wrote it!

I agree with people who've pointed out that is not an incentive to stop having kids for some, so it will be the child that's penalised. I'd rather pay out to those families, even if some people are seen as undeserving poor, than have children in poverty. Put the effort into going after the tax evasion and fraud at the other end of the wealth scale.

And I don't think that people don't deserve to have kids if they can't afford them! It should be a basic right that people have enough to raise kids and if not, they should get benefits. Wealth doesn't start off as a level playing field, and no one has more of a right to kids than others because of the circumstances they were born into.

Your a bunch of cold bastards and this is exactly what is wrong.

Well aren’t you a sweetheart!

OK then shall we bring back work houses for them families on benefits? What do you suggest? because people will not adhere to a two child policy. So do we just get rid of them then? Or let them starve or use the already stretched to the max food banks? What is it you are suggesting here because no matter there will always be a small majority of people who fiddle a system. But in punishing those people we are also punishing our friends and family who may get too sick to work or fall on really hard times. @alaskinoilbaron

This will be a cause of world class pain in the ass in about 20 years, because 18% of people have no kids and about the same number have just one. If everyone else is limited to 2 kids, the total fertility rate will fall under 1.5, making the young:working:retired ratio 14% to 50% to 36% which is abysmal and unsustainable. Population will drop by more than 5% per generation, making UK one of the dying nations. Forget pension schemes with 2 kids limit.

Two child limit is perfectly reasonable.

I agree up to a point rockingchair - I wouldn't deny anyone a child or two and thing the state should finance that. But the hard truth is that no one has the right to unlimited reproduction paid for by others.

The harder truth is that we are facing an environmental crisis of epic proportions. We are a country with one of the highest population densities and largest carbon footprints per head of population in the world. We can either curb our population and change our habits voluntarily or condemn many of our grandchildren and even more of their children to premature death through war, famine and disease.

It should be a basic right that people have enough to raise kids and if not, they should get benefits.

How many kids is that? 5, 10, 15? What about housing? Is it everyone's "right" to be given a house suitable for a very large family?

DrV the UK is very heavily populated. It would be a much nicer country with far less environmental stress with half the population - and if that decrease in population density is driven by personal choice rather than starvation then that would be an excellent thing, not something to be feared.

DrVonPatak - this only works if all these future children are going to be good workers and taxpayers. Ordinary well-paying jobs are shrinking in number. Care work is not attractive.

What could happen is that all these children simply repeat their family's pattern and have multiple children with no one contributing - either because they don't want to or find it economically unviable.

Two children is more than enough. Personally I think child benefit should be stopped at 2 not just other benefits

The planet is OVERPOPULATED. We can't people see that? Future generations probably face a really tough shit time with climate change, lack of food, lack of water etc.

If everyone only had 2 children then it wouldn't matter if their circumstances changed would it?

Me and DH chose to have no children partly due to overpopulation but some people are just too selfish to stop at 2.

Two of my neighbours had their third child last year. Both were "accidents". Of course it would have been far too difficult to make sure there were no accidents wouldn't it?

One of the couples didn't know about the 2 child rule and were up in arms when they found out. The girl is 25 and has only ever worked for 1 year since leaving school. The guy is 26 and works 20 hours a week. No valid reason for not working more hours except, of course, he can get more in benefits.

I worked over 40 years full time with no break. DH will have worked 50 years by the time he can retire. Why the hell should our taxes pay for people who can't be bothered to work but still want to have child after child?

Wereeaglesdare is it fiddling a system to have 3 or 4 children, 4 years apart each, and stay home with them for say 16 years?

Isn’t this a nice way to go about things if it’s all above board?

It needed to be done, it needs to be introduced in Ireland too.
Some generations will continue to have lots of DC expecting others to pay taxes and foot the bill.

I get some people don't use contraception for cultural reasons, when they have 8 kids one after the other and no job it is a joke, Your talking much more than child benefit and tax credit, education and rent payments.
Have children if you can afford them, government funding at least 2 for all households is not bad IMO.

And the 18% of people of whom you speak who have no kids and the further 18% who have just one - well, to be blunt, they are probably the people who will be earning higher salaries and have to bear the tax burden.

Even if all those future children work they will still need food to eat and clean water to drink and somewhere to live etc. And that's proving problematic right now.