AIBU to cut off friend who thinks I am racist?

[Screamanger]

Her reasoning being that my grandfather worked in the British Colonial Service in Tanzania. Apparently this means I directly profited from racism.

I don’t believe I have profited, and I am proud of my family.

Learning from our ancestry and it's attitudes means understanding them perhaps in the context of the time, but being proud of it all is not necessarily appropriate.

The British Empire was acquired through gunboat diplomacy. Indigenous populations were often just swept aside as the British imposed themselves. Segregation and slavery also played a part band some countries are still paying the price for that today.

Perhaps she meant that the British Colonial Service was itself a racist organisation?

Perhaps it was? I don’t know. My grandfather was a harbor master so not massively high up.

"British Colonial Service was itself a racist organisation?

Perhaps it was? I don’t know."

With a name like thay, I think we can guess.

We British ALL profited from colonialism and continue to do so. You can at the very least acknowledge that. No one is asking you to beat yourself up daily or anything, but to deny the awful impact colonialism had is a form of racism.

Perhaps it was? I don’t know.

And you didn't think you'd, you know, find out, before you decided to be proud of your relative's involvement? And you didn't find out anything about Tanzania's history before or during your visit?

She sounds like a lot of fun.

I'd ignore her if she tried to bring it up again and stop making an effort to stay in touch. Whether or not I'd actively avoid her/cut her off if she made an effort to see me would depend on whether or not she also continued to pester (and how good a friend she is in other ways).

Apparently this means I directly profited from racism. I don’t believe I have profited, and I am proud of my family.

I don't for a moment think you are racist.

But i think your statement above is untrue.
You may have benefitted from the racist British colonial policies of that time, if your ancestors benefitted from working in the colonial service and these benefits were passed down (eg inheritances, higher incomes and higher status meaning better opportunities). Many of us will have benefitted from this - it is a significant factor in why the UK is such a wealthy and influential country today (for now at least...).

I don't think anyone alive today has any need to feel guilty, but I do think we should acknowledge this, and take it into account in our relationships with the countries to which we caused a lot of harm (that is still having ramifications today).

If I found out my ancestor worked in British colonial service I would be interested, I would visit places they lived if I was in the country, but I don't think I'd feel proud. Not ashamed either, as I wouldn't judge them on today's values. But I don't think I'd feel proud either.

There is sometimes a tendency to view the British Empire as a huge and benevolent organisation which exported our technological and industrial prowess to the rest of the world.

It is true that some of that did happen, but it was often at the expense of native populations at the time. They were damaged by our treatment of them and general attitude towards them.

If the natives who had often been swept off their own land by the British invaders fought to get it back and/or to gain independence from British rule their own countrymen often saw them as freedom fighters. The British government tended to treat them with contempt - insurgents who needed to be crushed.

Very arrogant really, so whilst I am not suggesting that you yourself are racist, I can see how your friend might view British colonialism very differently. From the opposite side, as it were. She is presenting an alternative viewpoint.

I just wish people would read up on this stuff before talking about how great it is.

You don't have to be ashamed but at least educate yourself before you talk about it.

@RubberTreePlant

Sorry. That wasn't actually a particularly helpful link.

'Woke' now means painfully right-on. People who believe transwomen ARE women, that all white people are racist, that borders should be abolished and so on. Social Justice Warriors (SJWs).
I’m sorry what a lot of shit

@RubberTreePlant
For the record I don’t think trans women are real women but I do think lots of white people are racist as the frequent threads on Meghan Markle seem to prove.

@Screamanger
Perhaps it was? I don’t know. My grandfather was a harbor master so not massively high up.
Bookmark
Okay, I think your friend has the measure of you...

How good a friend is she? If she’s someone you’d want to keep as a friend, could you maybe discuss it with her rather than ‘cut her off’? I don’t think I’d discard a friendship on the basis of one awkward disagreement, but if it’s a huge sticking point between you and there’s not much else of value going on, that’s different.

@Ghanagirl as a fellow BME I think you know you are shouting into the void trying to discuss unconscious racism/bias on MN...

"I think you know you are shouting into the void trying to discuss unconscious racism/bias on MN..."

I'm frequently surprised by this. On other issues, mn always seems to be one of the most switched on, intelligent forums.

On race, unless it's a physical racist attack or someone using racist language, it's no big deal.

Of COURSE I don't have biases. Of COURSE I treat everyone equally. Colour doesn't matter to me.

And so on and so on.

It's really infuriating.

Of COURSE I don't have biases. Of COURSE I treat everyone equally. Colour doesn't matter to me.

If you admit something, you have to face it. It's much easier to pretend it's not happening.

Happens slightly with sexism, but much much more with racism. According to quite a lot of posters on here, they are immune to history, culture and socialization. Must be nice.

And you didn't think you'd, you know, find out, before you decided to be proud of your relative's involvement? And you didn't find out anything about Tanzania's history before or during your visit?

This

You do sound ignorant OP. Perhaps that’s what your friend meant.m? I don’t know.

Ghanagirl
edgeofheaven
I’m white. I’ve actually learnt quite a lot about unconscious racism while on MN. I know there is a lot of denial out there and please don’t think discussions are all in vain because from my perspective they are not. There are far more people, who just read threads without commenting and some of those will also have gained insight and question their behaviour or belief system.

RubberTreePlant
For the record I don’t think trans women are real women but I do think lots of white people are racist as the frequent threads on Meghan Markle seem to prove.

Lots, yes. 'All', no.

I'm not sure 'Do you like Meghan Markle' is the best diagnostic question for winkling them out, either.

Maybe you should read up on these issues op. I don't think your friend was actually calling you a racist but she was saying your family has benefited from racism or colonial policies. It doesn't mean you have to apologise or that you yourself are a racist. It's just about understanding systemic racism that operates in society.

YWBU to end a friendship over one argument.

Why are you “proud” of your GF?

MrsTerryPratchett's comparison to having an SS officer in the family is very apt.

OP you sound like you have misinterpreted your friend and not informed yourself about the reality of the British Empire and Colonial Service.

Definitely cut her off. She sounds like a case.

But recognise that you did benefit from colonialism. Perfidious Albion, and all that.

Blimey, she is woke isn't she?
Same reasoning I am definitely a Nazi and not a left wing middle aged woman from the home counties who spent her youth stood outside the SA embassy protesting apartheid.

Does she think you should do something about it? Like make a large donation?
Why are you proud of your family? Just because they're your family,?

Why are you “proud” of your GF?

He was in the navy during WWII and received the DSO for rescuing survivors. He was a good leader, and a kind gentle man who I respected. He transferred from the Navy to the Colonial service after the war.

I am proud of all 4 of my grandparents.