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AIBU?

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Original poster

To think you can't physically force somebody to have a late term abortion?

524 replies

Cringemum · 24/06/2019 14:16

Just that really.

I was following the thread on the feminist board about the 22yo woman with LD's, who is 22 weeks pregnant, and a judge has ordered the pregnancy be terminated against her wishes.

The thread reached the maximum amount of comments before anybody was able to shed any light on my question.

I can't fathom how she can be physically forced to go through the procedure if she refuses to comply.

Could anybody shed any light on how exactly something like this could be enforced short of physically dragging her to the hospital and restraining her.

Horrible, horrible case by all accounts and my POV is that the judge has made the wrong decision - for the mother - I'm strictly pro choice in all situations but this doesn't sit right with me at all.

Many on the previous thread strongly disagree as is their prerogative but I don't understand how she can be made to go through with a termination?

Anybody?

OP posts:
PouncerDarling · 24/06/2019 17:19

No one is acknowledging that she could possibly experience any distress at the death of her baby, so why do you think she would be distressed by it being adopted?

LoafofSellotape · 24/06/2019 17:20

Me too but I'll continue to ask on the small chance that I find someone to answer why giving her baby away would be better in the long run that to end the pregnancy now

No one on this thread cam answer that,only people directly involved with the case but clearly it is because it's not in her best interests to go to full term.

Original poster
Cringemum · 24/06/2019 17:21

@LoafofSellotape The social worker involved is in agreement with the babies grandmother that the pregnancy should continue.

OP posts:
PookieDo · 24/06/2019 17:21

No one will answer that question except to say it’s barbaric. Which is why this is a pro-life thread

Breathlessness · 24/06/2019 17:21

What a surprise. The petition was started by a ‘pro life’ group that believes life begins at conception.

AppleandBananas · 24/06/2019 17:21

I hope they find the person who impregnated her and lock them up. What were they thinking having sex with a child like adult!

VivienneHolt · 24/06/2019 17:21

It’s not the death of a baby, it’s the termination of a foetus. Deliberately emotive language doesn’t change the facts.

AnAC12UCOinanOCG · 24/06/2019 17:22

It's not a question of her being forced to give birth though, she is already pregnant and giving birth is (although sad in this case) the next part of the process

She can't make an informed decision, which you would see if you weren't blinkered by anti-choice rhetoric. Someone has to choose for her, either to go through forced birth and forced adoption or forced abortion. You're fine with the former but not the latter.

carla1983 · 24/06/2019 17:22

I'm pro choice.

That's why I don't agree with forced abortion.

TakenForSlanted · 24/06/2019 17:24

No one is acknowledging that she could possibly experience any distress at the death of her baby, so why do you think she would be distressed by it being adopted?

I think maternal distress is pretty much a given seeing as she's a) pregnant and b) not capable of bringing up a child unaided.

The real question is, surely: what causes the least harm overall? To the pregnant woman primarily but also to her potential child.

I don't have the answer, FWIW.

PouncerDarling · 24/06/2019 17:24

*I'm pro choice.

That's why I don't agree with forced abortion.*

Exactly this.

PookieDo · 24/06/2019 17:24

The judge said this about adoption:

She also said she thought the woman would suffer more if the baby was brought to term and taken away to foster care or for adoption than if pregnancy was terminated.

The woman “would suffer greater trauma from having a baby removed,” the judge said, adding, “It would at that stage be a real baby.”

The woman also has behavioural difficulties which could make full term labour very very traumatic and unsafe.

franklyshankly2 · 24/06/2019 17:24

We don’t know the views of the woman’s actual social worker we only know the views of a social worker employed by lawyers who were arguing for the woman’s mother.

That is completely different.

Isatis · 24/06/2019 17:25

It is forcing because she has stated that she doesn't want a termination

More disingenuity. The reports say that she has stated that she wants to keep the baby, which as pointed out is very different, and sadly almost certainly won't happen in any scenario.

Breathlessness · 24/06/2019 17:25

Pro choice implies that the woman in question has the capacity to choose. This woman lacks that capacity, so a court was asked to look at what is in her best interests and make that choice for her.

AnAC12UCOinanOCG · 24/06/2019 17:26

I'm pro choice.

And when the pregnant woman can't make an informed choice?

PouncerDarling · 24/06/2019 17:27

We can't have it both ways. Either she's so unaware of her surroundings, she wouldn't even notice the significantly invasive process of a forced late term termination, ergo she wouldn't even notice giving birth. And she's so unaware of her surroundings she wouldn't even notice that her baby has died ergo she wouldn't notice that it's been adopted.

It can't be both ways.

TakenForSlanted · 24/06/2019 17:28

Yes, pretty much precisely what Breathlessness just said.

Except: I'm glad it's not me judging this case. But, whether we agree with the decision or not, my greatest respect and sympathy to the judge put into this horrible position.

PouncerDarling · 24/06/2019 17:28

If someone can't choose to have a termination, it shouldn't even be on the table as an option. Terminations are for women who are capable of giving consent.

merrymouse · 24/06/2019 17:28

I think your faith in the courts and judges is naive.

What on earth is the ulterior motive supposed to be here? Do you think judges make this kind if decision for fun?

merrymouse · 24/06/2019 17:29

Terminations are for women who are capable of giving consent.

And so is child birth.

AnAC12UCOinanOCG · 24/06/2019 17:29

Terminations are for women who are capable of giving consent.

So is giving birth

VivienneHolt · 24/06/2019 17:31

We can't have it both ways. Either she's so unaware of her surroundings, she wouldn't even notice the significantly invasive process of a forced late term termination, ergo she wouldn't even notice giving birth. And she's so unaware of her surroundings she wouldn't even notice that her baby has died ergo she wouldn't notice that it's been adopted.

It can't be both ways.

Who is saying she wouldn’t notice? I don’t think there is now any resolution which doesn’t cause this poor woman some harm. The question is whether it will cause her more harm to carry the pregnancy to term than to have a termination, and the court has decided it would.

Nobody is jumping up and down with joy at the prospect of this woman having a termination. We’re just recognising that’s it’s her interests that matter most, and that forcing her to continue a pregnancy to satisfy other people’s emotional responses to the prospect of abortion is immoral.

franklyshankly2 · 24/06/2019 17:31

Terminations are for women who are capable of giving consent

so we should close off a potentially life saving procedure because someone does not have capacity?

Leleophants · 24/06/2019 17:31

I'm not pro-life, I'm pro-choice. This poor woman has no choice.

What people don't get about LD is there are so many individual differences and so many things we don't know. Yes she may have the mind of a 9 year old, but in what way? It won't be she is an exact 9 year old!

If the social worker and mother is willing to support her, I dont see why she can't have a c-section and the child be supported seperately. If this woman wants the baby and she had to go through the whole 'getting pregnant' part, then I think a forced abortion might be distressing at the very least. This is her life and her choice, even if she only sees the baby part time.