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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Neighbour and fence complaint...AIBU to tell her to sod off?

85 replies

YadiYadiYada · 23/06/2019 20:02

Ok, I didn't actually use the words "sod off", but more politely & calmly said "sorry, but no..."

Story about the long post but don't want to dripfeed:

Bought our house several months ago. We're FTB's and bought a doer-upper. It's just your average small 3-bed semi, but lots of work to be done, including a shit-hole of a garden. It was a former rental property and previous tenants hadn't looked after it.

We saved up hard over 9 months to get the garden completely overhauled as it really needed just digging up and starting from scratch. This included very old rickety fencing. Our neighbour owns one side of the boundary between us, however she's unemployed, lives alone and says she's unable to afford to have her side of the fencing replaced.

We understand her situation but didn't want to spend thousands on a new garden for one side to still be unstable and unattractive, so we went round and offered to pay for her side to be done. And done better than originally with concrete posts and gravel boards to ensure it was more structurally sound. The only catch was that as we were paying we would like to have the 'nice side' of the fencing facing into our garden. She accepted gleefully and laughed with "well if you're fucking paying for it, whatever!"

Our neighbour is an alcoholic btw. Not judging, I like a tipple myself. But it's a fact, and relevant. She goes through phases of going dry for a few weeks and then falling massively off the wagon and going through several weeks of bingeing and causing mayhem to all and sundry.

She's well-known to emergency services for being a nuisance who abuses 999. Her mother has all but disowned her and her daughter has gone completely NC. She often calls the kids playing out on the street "fucking little bastards!" for no reason. She's on tag for assaulting a police officer and she's been disqualified from driving as she ran someone over when under the influence. She's turned up on our doorstep in drunken stupors more than once, including xmas eve when we were doing the whole santa thing for our 6 yr old.

Due to her unpredictability though, we're always civil with her, always say a friendly "hi" if we see her, still have a friendly chat now and then, take her bins out for her on bin day & put them back, walk her back to her own house when she turns up drunk and make sure she's back in safely. We've never been anything but nice.

Our original discussion, where we offered to pay for the fencing, was specifically timed when she was dry and sober, to ensure she was totally compos mentis and she understood us. And prior to the work beginning we went round another two times to check she was still ok with it, reiterated what work was being done and reminded her of the date the work was starting. No probs, she was still ok and happy with it. Couldn't wait to have a nice new fence.

The new fencing has gone up and was completed yesterday. Done brilliantly - very sturdy, secure, straight, neat and looks good. A damn sight better than the one it's replaced by a longshot!

Neighbour came round today all aggressive & confrontational, wreaking of booze completely off her face shouting and balling "come and have a look at what your fucking builders have done in my garden, it's a fucking disgrace! I ain't fucking having it!!!"

She's clearly fallen off the wagon again and is now pissed off that we have the nice side of the fence.

"That's my side ffs, I should have the nice side of the fucking fence!" she's screeching. "AAAND! they've fucked up my gate, it don't fucking shut now, look at it!" while wrenching it back & forth and slamming it against the frame.

The gate has been 'fucked' for a while. She told us so herself that it's been like it for years when we chatted to her about the work we planned. She even showed us how it wouldn't shut. And over the months of living here we've seen her struggling and faffing with it. Ours was exactly the same because it hasn't been built properly as a whole structure by the original housing developers. It's just cheap B&Q stuff. We agreed that ours was just as crap, and was why we wanted to replace everything.

We managed to diffuse her angry episode with calm gentle talking and reminding her we had discussed this with her several times already, that it's far better than it was and that she had agreed because we paid for the lot and hadn't asked her for a penny. By the time we left she was laughing with us and being overly and uncomfortably affectionate, then waving us off cheerily. But we ignored the gate comment.

However, as we were walking away and just entering our own house she went to close her gate she shouted again and turned in an instant with "see, my fucking gate won't fucking shut now because of your fucking cowboy builders!" and started slamming it again.

We just went in.

I said to DH to just ask the fencing guys to sort her gate out, at our expense, just to shut her up. But DH says no out of principle. She's obviously a drunk CFer who's also trying to get a free gate as well as fencing. If we agree to the gates as well she's going to try to get more out of us.

But I'm worried if we don't she'll start causing trouble, kicking off at the builders who are still doing other landscaping work over the next few days and potentially calling out the police because she doesn't have "the fucking nice side!" of the fence (that we've paid for!)

Where do we stand legally if she causes a fuss? Will we have to give her the nice side at our expense if she decides to pursue it? I'm stressing now...

OP posts:
MayFayner · 23/06/2019 20:08

I think I would just say “oh yes, ok, we’ll have a look at that soon” on repeat.

What can she do that she hasn’t already done? Shouting drunkenly at people is very unpleasant (for you), but she hasn’t got any actual problem or power so I think I’d just have to ignore her.

Kaddm · 23/06/2019 20:09

I agree with you. I doubt it will cost much for your fence people to get that gate to shut and it will smooth things over with this neighbour. You have to live next to her so it’s a worthwhile investment.

YadiYadiYada · 23/06/2019 20:42

but she hasn’t got any actual problem

But to her, she does have a problem. She has the not-so-nice side of the fence in her boundary, and we've fucked up her gate.

We know that isn't true, that we had her agreement and that the gate was already crap..but how do we prove that if she creates trouble? Even if she doesn't pursue a legal claim against us I'm concerned she'll just turn into one of those nasty nightmare neighbours that go out of their way to make us miserable.

At one point today she even complained that the fence was now higher (it isn't, it's just that it's now straight and not leaning!) and she can't "nosey over" into our into garden!

When off the wagon she's nasty, bizarre, brazen and very unpredictable. I'd just rather have her gate fixed for the sake if peace, and to even potentially cover our backs as being reasonable and decent neighbours, should authorities be called on us

OP posts:
QuizzlyBear · 23/06/2019 20:44

I think you're obviously NOT BU! She's just an unstable individual who you should avoid contact with if you want a peaceful life. Personally I wouldn't want to pay for a new gate because such cfery would make me a little red misty and I do get stubborn. Given how unstable she is though, you can be the only judge of how she'll react longterm and it may be worth pouring some oil.

Just wondered though if you were aware of the actual reason most people are told to put their fence with the 'clean' side facing outwards? My BILA is a policeman and showed us how you can just lift the panels (on fences with concrete posts) with ease using the braces as handholds and slip underneath soundlessly. It's a big security issue and it freaked me right out!

ICantBelieveIDidThis · 23/06/2019 20:47

It's supposed to be her fence.

You only show the best side to the neighbour.

She's got the shit side, as she agreed to it and she's supposed to have the back side of the fence.

You're the neighbour who's supposed to have the nice side, even if you didn't pay for it.

Peterpiperpickedwrong · 23/06/2019 21:01

I would have the workmen look at her gate, it would save a lot of hassle. I would also quickly type up something you can get her to sign tomorrow, when she is sober, agreeing about the fence. Then just totally avoid her from now on.

TixieLix · 23/06/2019 21:01

Does it look much different on her side? If it has concrete posts I thought the panels just slide in and look pretty much the same both sides. What's different on her side?

YadiYadiYada · 23/06/2019 21:04

It's supposed to be her fence. You only show the best side to the neighbour. She's got the shit side, as she agreed to it and she's supposed to have the back side of the fence. You're the neighbour who's supposed to have the nice side, even if you didn't pay for it.

Ooh, I did not know that! We thought that if you owned that side, you were responsible for maintenance/paying for replacements, but were entitled to the nice side of the fence as a result. Good info to have, thank you!

But... this might now also cause issues with our other neighbours on the other side as well then. Ffs!

I mean, we did also discusd with them our plans and they said they were totally happy with them.

They're not alcoholics (lucky us!), but her older boy has previously bullied our younger boy, they refuse to acknowledge it despite witnessing it and it caused a little bit of tension for a while. But the dust has settled and they aren't glaring at us in the street any more! Well, not since they had a major power issue that caused a small fire and for two days they had to piggy-back off our electricity supply, anyway!

But again, we were totally reasonable with them about that and caused no dramas.

OP posts:
Cherrysoup · 23/06/2019 21:07

Tough shit on her, you've replaced her fence for free, so he can fuck off. Stop being so nice and freeze her off, no more pandering to her. I'd also have a word with the local housing association if that's when she rents from about her extremely anti-social behaviour.

Birdsfoottrefoil · 23/06/2019 21:07

The posts should be on the side of the owner of the boundary otherwise you would be giving several inches of your garden ‘away’ between the posts as the posts have to be on the owners land.

Cherrysoup · 23/06/2019 21:09

No reason the fence should cause issues with the other neighbours, it's been done correctly.

TowelNumber42 · 23/06/2019 21:10

Did you get her agreement in writing?

I'd do absolutely nothing while she's drinking. I'd avoid her. I'd tell the builders to avoid getting into discussions with her while she's drinking.

When she's sober again, get something in writing that she agrees to the fence as-is. If she starts being a tit then say you'll tear down the fence and she can rebuild at her own expense. I would be prepared to do that too.

blackteasplease · 23/06/2019 21:11

I was going to say you show the good side to your neighbour! So the person who owns the fence gets the back side.

We are EOT and apparently own both sides of ours!

TalkToMeee · 23/06/2019 21:13

Nothing useful to add except when we bought our house, both sides of our garden had the "nice side" so when we had the fence redone we had the nice side again! Oh dear!

I'd actually leave it and see what happens when she is sober. She may not bring it up again.

YadiYadiYada · 23/06/2019 21:14

I would also quickly type up something you can get her to sign tomorrow, when she is sober
She won't be sober tomorrow. I think she has literally got back on the booze again today. I saw her out yesterday and early this morning walking the dog. Which she only does when she's sober. But by this evening, when she came round shouting, she was trashed. And it will be a morning til night binge for several weeks now, until she's caused so much trouble she is pushed back into sobriety by her family & the authorities. She can't sign anything at present.

Does it look much different on her side Not particularly, just a couple of extra horizontal supports. And actually matches the other side of her garden, that her other neighbours own. Ours are just new so don't have the same 'weathered' colour yet as her other side.

OP posts:
Passthecherrycoke · 23/06/2019 21:15

The whole best side worse side stuff is just etiquette and almost certainly won’t be on your deeds. It’s quite old fashioned

Anyway Op, she’s an alcoholic. I understand your frustration but she’s in no fit state to have reasonable conversations about things like fences. You know what she’s like, you’ve described her chaotic life yourself! Just do as a PP suggested and tell her your Builders will be back to look at it. Repeatedly.

WiddlinDiddlin · 23/06/2019 21:22

Do whatever (within reason) you can to placate..

I really think your only error here was to not have her sign something in writing agreeing to your plan, when she was sober. I'd get that done asap when she is next sober (even a the cost of a gate that closes tbh!), that way IF she does ever go so far as police etc you have something to show them.

WeeDangerousSpike · 23/06/2019 21:24

Never ever waste your time trying to reason with someone who's drunk. They just aren't capable of being rational. Just walk away.

And the whole nice side / back side of the fence thing is crap. It's up to you if you're paying for it - it doesn't mean anything at all. You certainly can't assume ownership based on which side faces which way.

Like pp said, it's just some old fashioned etiquette.

YadiYadiYada · 23/06/2019 21:36

Like pp said, it's just some old fashioned etiquette. Phew! I'm sooo relieved to hear that! And very useful to know, thanks guys.

I really think your only error here was to not have her sign something in writing agreeing to your plan, when she was sober True, I know. At the time I did think about it, but it seemed quite aggressive to go in with a contract and kind of demand a signature from someone we know to be unstable. Despite being sober at the time of the discussion it also crossed my mind that if she ever turned on us she might say we coerced her into signing a contract when we knew she was a vulnerable alcoholic and that she was under the influence at the time and we forced her. That's genuinely not the kind of people we are, and if she'd ever have objected we wouldn't have replaced her fence. We would've been gutted, but wouldn't have done it.

It's just such a tricky thing to navigate. I don't want to exacerbate her episodes - I even worry that its our work that's caused her to get back on the booze, but I'm also annoyed that we haven't even got the bloody garden finished and she's already started Sad

OP posts:
AJPTaylor · 23/06/2019 21:45

You've got it the wrong way round. Her fence, nice side to neighbour.
Tbf our neighbours have just replaced their fence and given themselves the fair side. Luckily we think life is too short to get het up.
In your shoes I would give fair warning to the landscapers.

icanhearapindrop · 23/06/2019 21:45

Absolutely no way would I be paying to get her gate fixed! It sounds as though she will be a nightmare the next few weeks no matter what you do, so why waste your money? Also, is she going to forever hold you responsible for her gate should your builders fix it and it then breaks again?

AdobeWanKenobi · 23/06/2019 21:46

You pay for the fence you get to have any side you like. Ignore her and if it's not six foot already get it higher.

AJPTaylor · 23/06/2019 21:52

You also need to factor in "You can't reason with the unreasonable"
In reality she might have a drunken rant: but no one is going to judge you for it. Police won't be interested

Isatis · 23/06/2019 21:53

If you sort out her gate for her, what guarantee do you have that she's going to stop making a fuss? It sounds like she will keep banging on about the fence, whatever you do.

Please, please, in the future DON'T rely on verbal agreements with this woman. Every time she agrees something, write to her afterwards confirming what she agreed, obviously keeping a copy of what you have written, and make sure that you have proof that she received what you have written. That way you don't have to keep repeating the same stuff, you can just refer her to the record of your agreement that she hasn't contested at any time.

Passthecherrycoke · 23/06/2019 21:55

Tbh I don’t think having something in writing will make any difference if she’s incapacitated all the time anyway. What would you use it for?