To think banning stuff from schools is stupid

[SparklesAndUnicorns]

I like to think I'm quite a 'progressive' parent and I like my children to express themselves how they feel most comfortable, they tend to pick and wear what they want over the weekends and I do let them ocassionally change their hair colours with semi permanent safe dyes.
I agree with school uniform but my daughters school doesn't even allow hair bows, she went in with a few braids and bows in the other day and came home with a messy ponytail in and told me the teacher had taken them out. Teacher explained it's against school rules to have more than one bow in their hair. Aibu to think rules like no nail varnish, no hair accessories and no hair dye is just ridiculous rules? How is this going to effect their learning? She is only 6 and I really don't understand the reasoning. Surely if it's a bullying thing then this is down to parenting your child to accept that everyone is different, I can't see how it's a health and safety issue like piercings would be, I do agree to remove earrings on PE days as I can understand that one, but the others seem strange to me. Would love to know others feelings and opinions on this

No I want teachers who cares if my child gets an education more than they care for a cheese and pickle at lunchtime 😂😂😂

You make light of it, but this is it, really, isn’t it? Anyone not prepared to get UTIs and kidney problems because they never get time to have a wee, anyone not prepared to go without food from breakfast to dinner time, anyone who wants to sit down and clear their brain, or take their lunch break to call their GP’s surgery or book a dentist’s appointment, or catch up with a colleague, is selfish and a BAD TEACHER. Because YOU WANT...

Blah blah.

It’s tedious.

Ds's form teacher, put a comment in the end of year sign off about how being smartly dressed was a quality that would take you far, as lovely as she was, I never recall thinking she looked smartly dressed, more like a bit of dishevelled mess - not that I care but it was funny how she judged dressing smartly in others as important but didn't think to up her own game.

Back to the uniform debate, as a parent, I have no problems with rules per se - if they make sense. The blazer on a hot day example is a good one. I have as much told my kids I'd back them up if, in 30 degree heat, they took it off. Rules should not supersede common sense ever and it used to irritate me immensely when I got a text from the school, announcing it was OK to not wear it, as if I were one of the kids myself and I could not make that decision myself- or even my own child to decide whether they'd be hot or cold.

A lot of enforcement seems to be a flexing of muscles for the sake of it. In the case of our primary school, there was a lot of that and little attention was paid to the fact that it was a failing school and they focused on uniform to look as if they were doing something.

I know my kids have a strong sense of unfair, wwhich probably comes from me! It is not necessarily a negative. Healthy debate at our work has seen a lot of relaxation of ultra conservative rules (eg on tattoos). I have often challenged (politely and at appropriate times) rules and ways of doing things so much so that I was chosen as a rep for the staff and a kind of go between for the management

I think some teachers were born to be teachers and they are the best ones, I think teachers who can't recognise that children are entitled to be taught, and want to ensure their children have the best out of their schooling, should probably leave the profession
I'm not sure that some people are born teachers. I think some people have a disposition to jobs like teaching, but being a good teacher is so much more than that. To adopt a position of 'natural teacher' diminishes the skill and development of a professional craft (to me) and that often comes with time and reflection.

For example, I know from staff and student feedback that I'm viewed as a strict and friendly teacher. I believe in inclusion, strong pastoral support and that all children deserve an education (I can't stand writing kids off because it pisses me off). But equally, I have no time for things that takes my attention away from educating (such as parents arguing that their child talking when told not to doesn't count because it was just a question, parents/ students squabbling over the fact the rules say tuck your shirt in, etc). I would describe my teaching as warm-strict, friendly and firm. I rarely give sanctions because students know I care about uniform, manners, quality of work etc and we have a culture of high expectations so they tend not to break the rules.

I have a friend who is also a teacher. They are also a strict teacher and whilst they are nice as an adult, they are so arsey to the students and seem to think it's a badge of honour that students don't like them. Teaching isn't a popularity contest (because that's how you get 'cool' teachers who undermine colleagues by being matey), but I would be genuinely upset if I ever heard my students speak about me the way they speak about my friend. Amusingly, my friend jokes that I'm too soft. I'm not at all. I just find that strict works best when combined with a friendly and kind disposition.

I work with trainees and new teachers and getting the balance right on friendly levels, exercising authority and sanctions etc is a skill that takes time. I've seen some fabulous early career teachers who were far too soft and then had to ramp up the strictness in order to be respected (vs cool mate status because that's not real respect for a teacher) and I've also had to tell other new staff that they need to warm up a bit and not be so cold and arsey because there's a difference between strict/high standards and being cold. It takes time to get it right and even then everyone will have their own thoughts/ feelings on it

You make light of it, but this is it, really, isn’t it? Anyone not prepared to get UTIs and kidney problems because they never get time to have a wee, anyone not prepared to go without food from breakfast to dinner time, anyone who wants to sit down and clear their brain, or take their lunch break to call their GP’s surgery or book a dentist’s appointment, or catch up with a colleague, is selfish and a BAD TEACHER. Because YOU WAN

In my previous role I didn't get 2 seconds to myself in a 10hr day, but I chose that role and I didn't go around saying how entitled my stake holders were, I did the job or I could have bailed out.
The differences are, a teacher is responsible for educating our youth, the future of this country and if you are not capable of doing that in the lesson time, yes you should take time out of your day to educate.

You would also have to take a step back and maybe review your teaching style within said lesson, if you are getting so many students needing extra tuition from you, and not grasping what you are teaching within the structure of your classroom.

No it's not that I want it's that you have told me you can educate my child. If you cannot do that, ship out !!!

I do however know how stretched teachers are and the rubbish they have to deal with, but people with that attitude expressed on here, then sorts of teachers do not get my sympathy !!

In my previous role I didn't get 2 seconds to myself in a 10hr day, but I chose that role and I didn't go around saying how entitled my stake holders were, I did the job or I could have bailed out.
The differences are, a teacher is responsible for educating our youth, the future of this country and if you are not capable of doing that in the lesson time, yes you should take time out of your day to educate.

Crappy race to the bottom argument. No. I am legally entitled to a break. Did I always take one? No. That’s not the point. We aren’t slaves. We have legal rights like anyone else in any other job.

And do you know what? I did ship out. I have never been happier, because I no longer have to listen to this sort of entitled, bullying shit, or teach the children of people like you, without respect for me as a professional or a person. God knows why I am listening now! On that note, I am out.

And do you know what? I did ship out. I have never been happier, because I no longer have to listen to this sort of entitled, bullying shit, or teach the children of people like you, without respect for me as a professional or a person. God knows why I am listening now! On that note, I am out.

Well it's good that you recognised that teaching clearly wasn't for you and moved onto greener pastures. As I have said many times, I am respectful to everyone and it is the way they behave that determines if they deserve my continued respect. I hold good teachers in the greatest regards with the upmost respect as they are hard to come by.

Well it's good that you recognised that teaching clearly wasn't for you and moved onto greener pastures. As I have said many times, I am respectful to everyone and it is the way they behave that determines if they deserve my continued respect. I hold good teachers in the greatest regards with the upmost respect as they are hard to come by.

You’re not. You’re a bully. You are happy when you get what you want, like all bullies. Not worth my time.

And the saddest thing about it, for me, is that I loved teaching. Good or outstanding since I was an NQT. Never told I was anything but an excellent teacher. I just hate bullies.

The differences are, a teacher is responsible for educating our youth, the future of this country and if you are not capable of doing that in the lesson time, yes you should take time out of your day to educate

Agreed. And a good school recognises this.

So in my experience (just ensuring everyone reads this is MY experience) in return for teacher availability, the teachers get time out of class to make appointments, time out of school to attend appointments, time out of school to attend their own children’s appointments, school plays, events at school etc, authorised absence for weddings/holidays in term time, time in lieu for evening parents’ evenings.

herculepoirot2 you come across as rather forceful yourself - it's interesting that you accuse others of being bullies when they stand up to you.

herculepoirot2 you come across as rather forceful yourself - it's interesting that you accuse others of being bullies when they stand up to you.

Forceful isn’t bullying. I respect people’s rights to rest, to adhere to the terms of their contracts, to set boundaries for themselves. Some of these people don’t, and they are responsible for the carnage in the teaching profession. It is not being bad at your job to stand up for yourself and refuse to do what others demand, when those demands are inappropriate.

Mamamadnes
The differences are, a teacher is responsible for educating our youth, the future of this country and if you are not capable of doing that in the lesson time, yes you should take time out of your day to educate

Just so you know, this is what the people you are backing up actually think: you are not capable of teaching their children during lesson time, and that’s why you never get a lunch break. When you are “supporting” their kids on your own time, unpaid, this is how they see you.

Just so you know, this is what the people you are backing up actually think: you are not capable of teaching their children during lesson time, and that’s why you never get a lunch break. When you are “supporting” their kids on your own time, unpaid, this is how they see you

No, that’s how you see them. Gosh you struggle with even the simplest of concepts don’t you? Outstanding you said......? Sure.

Just to give a little heads up, when ONE poster makes a comment, they only speak for themselves.

HTH.

JacquesHammer
Some of those things are the case, others may be your experience but are so far removed from most schools.

Time out for medical appointments is unpaid in the vast majority of schools unless it is a hospital appointment and the school has to be provided with suitable evidence to authorise it.
Time out to make appointments is something that I've never heard of. People might use their PPA to make a quick phone call but it's not time out.
Time out for children's appointments usually comes out of absence and even then it's for specific things only like urgent medical issues or hospital. We are expected to have routine doctors or dentists in school holidays (rightly so).
Authorised absence for weddings- I have never come across that ever.
Authorised holidays in term time- I have never come across that ever other than extenuating personal circumstances (e.g. leave to care for elderly parent and that would never be disclosed to wider staff or parents)
Time in lieu for parents'evenings - I'm guessing that's private because parents' evenings are in the directed time budget and all the time they run over magically vanishes. It's accepted as part of the job.

I do feel you're painting a very rosy picture there that doesn't match with the vast majority of state teachers.

I agree there is a certain amount of reasonable input beyond the school day, but the idea that if someone isn't doing well there should be endless hours of free tutoring as standard is wrong. I would go as far as to say that people who spend hours and hours on free additional tuition are undermining colleagues and creating a damaging culture where it's normal and acceptable to work 60-70hour weeks.

I agree there is a certain amount of reasonable input beyond the school day, but the idea that if someone isn't doing well there should be endless hours of free tutoring as standard is wrong

I have never argued for endless hours.

Re: the schools in my experience, one private and one state.

As a teacher, I don’t know whether a uniform is better or not. I know there are certain aspects to our school rules I think should be implemented, such as girls not being allowed long acrylics etc.

Our school uniform policy is fairly relaxed. Shoes have to be black, but they can be trainers. Hair can be dyed. Earrings can be worn but facial piercings cannot. Blazers absolutely can be taken off in summer time. We even allow pupils to undo their button and remove their tie during hot days in lesson. The blazer rule I find absolute stupidity. I wear summer clothes in the summer, not a jacket. Why anyone expects children to do differently is beyond me.

No one is concentrating on algebra if they are suffocating.

As for giving up breaks and dinners. No I don’t. I mean I have two set days a week, Monday and Thursday where I stay in my room all lunch and break, pupils are welcome to come and see me for anything at all in that time. The rest of the week then no. I eat my lunch in peace, probably whilst scanning MN or online shopping. If a pupil absolutely desperately needed to me I would obviously make the exception but this is rare.

Interestingly though, now the ranting has ceased ()

The ethos in my DD’s school was teacher-driven and changed 3 years ago. Clearly therefore that method of working is working for them.

Care to share you’d DD’s school, Jacques - it sounds great!

Care to share you’d DD’s school, Jacques - it sounds great

It’s lovely. But remaining secret as I never name change and don’t want to start now

As for giving up breaks and dinners. No I don’t. I mean I have two set days a week, Monday and Thursday where I stay in my room all lunch and break, pupils are welcome to come and see me for anything at all in that time. The rest of the week then no. I eat my lunch in peace, probably whilst scanning MN or online shopping. If a pupil absolutely desperately needed to me I would obviously make the exception but this is rare

That seems perfectly reasonable and fair. I don’t think any parent could object to that.

The differences are, a teacher is responsible for educating our youth

No they are responsible for getting good OFSTED ratings and those that might bring this rating down are put in a position where leaving is the only answer

Hurumph

Worth a try!

No they are responsible for getting good OFSTED ratings and those that might bring this rating down are put in a position where leaving is the only answer

Do bear in mind that the Ofsted rating will, from now on, take whether SLT are reasonable on workload into account. Nobody forcing teachers to spend their lunch hour tutoring students is going to be rated “Outstanding”. Which is as it should be.

My daughter's school is very liberal when it come to things like hair dye etc. The kids are allowed to wear make up if they want, dye their hair, have nose piercings etc and academically, it's one of the best performing schools in the UK. They are quite strict that the uniform is all correct though. Personally I think it's quite good, they don't make a fuss about the little things, hopefully spending more of their energies on learning.