AIBU To judge parents who refuse to pay their contribution to student maintenance loan at Uni?

[ThunderandPharoah]

Have got some friends who are not going to stump up for their parental contribution when their DD starts Uni this year. Can't help thinking that this is a pretty low thing to do as they are not exactly short of money. Would you judge?

It's a cruddy system. The principle of parental support at university has been around for decades now, but of course people won't necessarily know this if they didn't go themselves. And I think MN forgets sometimes that a majority of people don't.

When I was at uni in the early 00s I got the maximum loan and also a small bursary. I found it financially easier to manage than those whose parents were expected to contribute but didn't. They usually seem to be the poorest amongst us, and we all felt for them then. Of course, they then ended up with a smaller student debt than me, the unfairness of which didn't really hit me until later.

It really is a crap way of doing things. Infantilises adults, provides a way for those parents given to coercive behaviour to continue it. Also, when my parents knew they were going to have a couple of kids in uni over a short period they deliberately ensured the family income stayed under the threshold for the maximum help. It would be foolish to think they are the only ones who ever took this decision. Doesn't seem particularly smart to provide such a perverse incentive.

The amount of misinformation on this thread is incredibly worrying.

I had a student grant and my parents paid their contribution.
Some of my university friends weren't so lucky, which meant they had to spend a lot of their time working, which cut into their study time.
You are there to get a degree, after all, which means writing essays, doing research, etc etc. and not spending your spare minutes stacking shelves or working in a bar, just so you can afford to live.

My dd did not take advantage of her loan initially, as she was so busy working and being stressed about money.
her peers who were from richer backgrounds, being supported by parents, maxed out their loans, such fun were they having

@DishingOutDone What most people are saying is the OP cannot possibly know the full financial circumstances of the family in question. A judgement is being made about “choosing” not to contribute and most posters are pointing out that it may not actually be a choice.
Appearing wealthy is one thing, but the household income threshold is actually quite low (around £50k household income will mean the student gets the lowest support - that means only 2 adults in the home who earn £25k which isn’t much really).

I think it's the system that is all wrong.
Due to my parents earning just over the threshold I only qualified for the non means tested amount. They did take into account my siblings, but not the fact that my parents were also caring for 2 additional dependents in the form of grandparents with dementia who had no pensions and lived with us. I tried asking for more but "computer says no". My parents gave me as much as they could but there was a shortfall.

I would have happily taken out a bigger loan as I was studying medicine and couldn't work much more than weekends, but the SLC wouldn't give me one. As it was, I took out a private student loan and got a job where I was able to work night shifts that were mainly sleeping- I was very very lucky in that respect and I knew others who dropped out / down into less demanding courses due to money. I imagine it's worse now.

Actually I don't think it is sad Gwen .

as adults we often have to make difficult/ sensible decisions for the greater good. In normal say to say life people who are legally adults don't get to make expensive personal decisions with the expectation that someone else will be funding it for them.

It sounds like the woman in the example above has her head screwed on and is making the sensible decision to defer for a year so she can save up to go to the high ranking university.

www.savethestudent.org/save-money/health/mental-health-at-university.html

Student mental health is getting worse. Pretty sure this ridiculous system doesn't help.

My DS1 is at Uni and doesn't receive the full maintenance loan amount due to my DPs income. DS and DP (not his father) have a very strained relationship. DS1 is quite a difficult person and while they get on to an extent it's not a stepparent / child relationship. DPs earnings mean that DS doesn't qualify for the full loan.

When DS turned 19 his child benefit stopped, our tax credits stopped and basically our household dropped by around £300 a month. I agreed to top up DS1s loan to the full amount. DP will not give him an allowance out of his pocket as we watched DS1 blow £12k earnings on rubbish while he was retaking two a levels. I've had to take a second job and eat into my savings to keep DS afloat.

I would really like DS to be standing on his own two feet, however for the purposes of student finance he is still a child and I should be supporting him. Tax credits and Child Benefits consider him an adult and their support is withdrawn. There needs to be some consistency over when childhood ends!!

My university days date back to maintenance grants which were means tested, usually based on family income although I know some people filled in the forms as independent adults.
There didn't seem to be any legal difficulties doing this and they got full grants, without parental involvement.
Others, based on their family income would get smaller grants and a parental top up - some parents did this but not all. If parental income was above the limit, you didn't get a grant.
I guess we had the option to not be reliant on parents which helped both students and families.

NTWT

@Chescascurious Sun 23-Jun-19 08:24:50

To give some people an idea of why, take my uni loans & costs for example
This year (starting in September) I will receive the lowest maintenance loan, just over £4100, because of what my dad earns.
My accommodation for the year will cost just under £8000

£8k seems unnecessary, you don't have to stay in the Halls you can just rent a room in a shared flat elsewhere. I get it is nice to stay in the Halls but not at that price.

My daughter got the full amount for her undergrad thankfully but she isn't allowed any at all for her masters which she is doing right now. It was hard for her to get a job as she is no 22yrs so it was cheaper for employers to hire younger students.

I did say to her at the beginning to consider going to uni closer to home then she can have free board and lodgings but she wanted to move to another city and have that student experience which I completely understand but it came at a cost to her.

I understand a lot of students maybe can't work during term time but what are they doing during the 3 months off in the summer? Get the summer job sorted when A levels finish and return each summer. Earn enough to supplement the loan. Ok, cue posters saying why this is impossible for their own dc but it is how a huge number of students finance their studies.

Another aspect to the dire situation is the astronomical rents charged by student accommodation companies. They build huge tower blocks, divide into shoebox size 'flats' with paper thin walls then divide each of these by 7 to create 6 units ('rooms') and 1 communal area. Then charge £150 a week for the unit. (Yes, Unite, I'm looking at you).
A local cap needs to be put on these units for the first year.
Also private landlords for houses deemed as student lets need to be regulated. High rents for 40 weeks a year shouldn't mean you can then ask for a retainer over the summer when repairs are being carried out and the students can't access the property. That's having your cake and eating it. Just a thought parents that maybe it's worth looking into a normal (ie non-student) rental agreement where the rent is lower and covers the whole 52 week year, especially if your dc has part time employment in their university town.
Someone up thread said their accommodation was £8k?? Is that right? If that's Unite the fuckers need to be shot

So let me get this straight: the person is a means-tested dependent, but not when it comes to disable 16-year-olds being moved onto PIP or low income families continuing to receive tax credits and child benefit for them or 18-year-olds receiving 'child' support from their non-resident parent? How very . . . backwards, punitive and out-dated.

There also seems to be a real resistance to students working whilst studying, a lot of 'they can't possibly'. It's a really dated concept to have, very backwards as well and sadly, your system is really behind because in some places, N. America, for example (I'm from Canada), higher education is in large part set up for mature students and working people, even these so-called vocational degrees. It's not at all unheard for people who work FT and have families to also be studying for undergrad and higher degrees.

Really hope to see some progression in things but, given attitudes and Brexit, can't see it all changing or anything besides brain drain.

Some young people blow money and earnings, are lazy, won't listen to advice on money, are manipulative, too, so YABU because you don't know the whole story.

Uni students are adults. Parental contributions should not even be considered. In every other walk of life we're expected to get on with it and our finances are not pooled. Inheritace tax is ours to pay, our estate is ours not theirs not our kids etc

Why when it comes to Uni is what's ours suddenly our kids too?

And no OP I think if they get maintenance loans then the loans are on the student like everyone else. Regardless of their parent's income.

Uni is a choice - there are plenty of other options for further education.

Or, if the career choice demands a degree (medicine/law etc) there’s the option to explore universities close to home, stay at home and save money on accommodation/food etc. I doubt any parent would begrudge their child living at home to pursue further education. It doesn’t fit with the dream of the uni lifestyle, but all depends on what you’re going to uni for really...

YANBU. You don't have to know the parents circumstances to think that they should contribute the parental contribution as if they really don't have earn enough then their DC would get a full loan anyway so it wouldn't be an issue. I remember students who's parents didn't contribute even though they were supposed to and they really struggled and some didn't finish their degree.

I do agree that the system should be revamped though. I don't really see why a full loan is only given to those who parents can't contribute. It is a loan not a gift and interest is charged at a high rate so why can't all students access it?

For various complex reasons my parents could only afford their contribution for one year that I was at uni and not the following years, despite me not getting a grant. I worked and paid my own way, but it was difficult and I don't think they ever realised how difficult it was. I don't know if they could have come up with other options, if it were my DS then I would have dipped into savings and made the money back later. They've offered me money if I need it as an adult and it makes me feel a bit annoyed frankly, because the money wasn't there when I actually needed it and was being penalised by having no grant like others got. At some point I stopped caring any more. On the whole I think YANBU, we may not know all the financial circumstances but the child is being financially penalised based on what the parent discloses so the parent should make up the gap.

Usually children want to be able to consider themselves as adults as soon as possible, and it is reasonable to assume it should apply at age 18. If they choose to go to university and live away, I don't think parents should be forced to make a large contribution for accommodation. If they had that sort of spare money, if they had any sense, they would have put it into buying another property for their retirement fund. Having an adult child living at home and feeding them and not charging board money is different and a sensible way to help out. Those who go to university also need to get their priorities in the correct order.

I think the maintenance loan should be based on the location of the university. E.g. Coventry £6k, central London £10k based on covering an average rent for the area, utilities and basket of groceries. Nothing to do with parental income.

Both my DC got maximum loan for university due to my low income as a lone parent
It was still difficult for them to manage financially so both had part time jobs
I helped out where I could by doing online food shop once a month for the basics and toiletries etc
I went to university when it was a grant system however it still worked the same way and grant was dependent on parental income - my DP refused as said they couldn’t afford it - to be fair I don’t think they could or really understood the system - in my grotty comprehensive less than 5% of us went onto university
My grant was £980 per academic year and my rent without bills was £1200 per academic year - not in halls but high private rents even for bedsits in SE
I had to work as much as I could - in my final year I actually worked a 45-50 hour week on shift work which definitely contributed to my 2:2 - I was originally predicted to get a first
It just made me more determined to treat my DC better

Usually children want to be able to consider themselves as adults as soon as possible, and it is reasonable to assume it should apply at age 18. If they choose to go to university and live away, I don't think parents should be forced to make a large contribution for accommodation.*

But they are and they know that this will be the case when they choose to have children so they have had plenty of time to save up.

The system is not very good. People are stuck if their parents refuse to pay but are classed in the lower loan category (because their parents are higher earners).

As PPs have alluded, there seems to be a way of legally separating - but I don’t think this should be necessary as govt shouldn’t make the assumption that parents will contribute. It may be cheaper to go to a local uni/FE college and live at home if such an option is available and plausible.

I'm confused - what's a parental contribution? As far as I knos there's the loan (which everyone gets) and then the bursary (which only children of low income families get). I got the loan but wasn't eligible to the bursary. My parents didn't pay for anything though, although they were very well off and could have. It would have been nice if they did but then, why would they? I don't know anyone whose parents were involved in funding any part of their university experience? We all funded ourselves through loans and part time jobs.

Student gets 9250 paid to uni to pay tuition.
Student gets a maintenance loan of between 4k and 8k (ish) to pay accommodation and living costs, this is dependant on parents earnings.

Ds1 has a maintenance loan that does not cover the cost of uni halls. He works part time (with extra hours in the holidays) to top up his money. We are expected to make up the shortfall based on our earned income which does not take into account outgoings or other siblings.

In September DS2 will also be going to uni and we will have to do the same for him.

So we will be forking out £500 per term x2 to make up the rent shortfall and topping up the boys disposable income as and when necessary. Luckily they are both fairly self sufficient and able to be reasonably frugal but I'm expecting it will be about 20-30 every couple of weeks or so.

There's little point saying "but we did/didn't do [whatever]" because that's not what happens now.

@Dungeondragon15 and the student should take into account the fact that if they can't get enough money together to go to the uni they want then they need to consider using a Uni closer to the family home and not moving out.
How many thousands would that save?