to ask my 9 year old to stump up half of his £250 school trip?

[EnidBrighton]

NC for this as it's quite specific. My 9 year old DS came home from school yesterday with a letter for a residential trip at an eyewatering £250. Things are already tight, but I have enough notice to make cuts to absorb it - but it does mean cutting back on some things and life not being as comfortable for a few weeks so that he can go.

I never ever ever went on school residentials because my parents couldn't afford it, and I was bullied for it, because it sucks being the poor kid at the grammar school, and twenty years later it still stings a bit and I still have some resentment about not being able to do DofE etc. So I absolutely do not want DS missing out on this trip, there's no question of him not going.

BUT his attitude and behaviour over the last few weeks and months have absolutely stunk. Rudeness, backchat, lies, tantrums, slamming doors, the works. I toe the line between having fairly strict standards of behaviour, bur being fun and chilled and approachable, and we have had endless 'chats' about rudeness and respect, time outs, taking away electronics, having to 'earn' electronics time, et cetera.

AIBU to use this residential trip as an opportunity to encourage him to think about his behaviour more and be more considerate? Because when he tries, he is the kindest, sweetest, most thoughtful kid. But I see less of that and more of the rudeness, lies and temper these days.

So I'm tempted to make him an offer. We have 12 weeks to pay the balance of the trip. Would I be unreasonable to ask him to 'earn' half of the cost - £125 - by doing additional simple household chores, keeping his attitude in check, doing some helpful paid tasks like washing Grandads car, etc. If he earns above the £125, he can take it as spending money or put it in his savings book.

I think it would be a good opportunity for him to learn the value of money (I am still aghast at how much it is) and also a tangible value of good behaviour. I mooted it with my DP this morning and she also thinks it's a good idea.

What are your thoughts? And do you have any suggestions as to how he can 'earn' it?

I thought you were going to dip into his savings to pay for it, which I think would be OK, if that's the only way he could go and he wanted to go enough to pay, but your proposal doesn't actually ease your financial situation at all.

I think the trip and the behaviour need to be separate. If you tell him he'll only be going if he's "good" knowing full well that he'll still be going unless his behaviour is truly awful-- he'll know you don't follow through. My guess is he already knows that (as you've pretty much said yourself that he's highly likely to go regardless) so it's unlikely you'll see even a short term improvement.

My DS had a spell of terrible "toddler" tantrums at 9yo which I think are down to hormones. We did "thinking time". i.e. go to your room and think about what you've done and why you did it, then we'll talk about it. He hated the talking part and it did reduce the outbursts but even when it didn't, it diffused the situation before it escalated too much.

For the financial side of things maybe he can suggest something he's prepared to give up to help pay for it. Maybe stop buying a treat food he likes or sacrifice an activity?

I love the idea of DS contributing to the cost, so how about 1/3 of the money he earns will be pocket money and 2/3 are towards the cost of the trip - or whatever % split you feel is suitable.That way if he doesn't get to €125 he still gets the benefit of some money he earned in his pocket.

When mine realised how long it took to earn €5, their spending was a lot less flaithulach.

My response comes from a slightly different angle and I hope this is ok. Our 11 year old went on her Year 6 residential this year - essentially a 5 day trip which included travel on the Monday and return on the Friday at a total cost of £385 plus money spent on buys walking socks, layers etc. Very expensive!

To manage our children's sense of entitlement and make her understand that money is hard to earn and that you can't just have what you want and when you want it, my husband and I told our daughter that whilst we would pay the deposit (£85), she would need to raise half of the remaining £300 - so £150.

She could earn the money in anyway she wanted - a cake sale with friends, additional jobs on top of already required chores at home etc. She raised £130. Now whilst not the full amount, the idea was to get her to understand that it takes effort and things just don't fall on our laps which was achieved. Also the idea was to make her understand all that we do as parents.

I did take the money from her but put it into her savings without her knowledge.

It's education based. Not a jolly. YABVU.

I wonder if, instead of earning the right to go, you tell him that he can’t go because he’s been too badly behaved?

I know you don’t want him to miss out for financial reasons because of your own experiences, but this wouldn’t be the same. It would be a consequence for his behaviours. ‘I can’t trust you to be sensible and civil to people in this so I can’t trust you to go away with lots of other people’.

Your comment above that you want to demonstrate that he can’t talk to you like dirt and then expect to go on a school trip really struck a chord with. This isn’t about paying him to do better. He’s already forfeited his right to go.

It’s just another perspective. I’m not saying it’s what I’d do, but something to think about.

I think it's a good idea - reward is always a better way of improving behaviour than punishment.

Hmm for me politeness and respect are non-negotiable. I have an 8 and a 10 year old and if I do not get treated with respect I do not feel like hanging out with them and doing the fun stuff. Equally, I wouldn't expect them to want to hang out with me if I was rude to them and disrespectful. I expect both of my boys to know how to be polite and if they are not they are pulled up about it and that should be the end of it.

I think what I am trying to say is being polite and respectful has its own reward in that people enjoy your company and perhaps the child ought to understand the consequence of being rude is that people don't want to hang out with him - not that he won't receive a prize.

My worry would be payment for what is expected. You say he now does chores without expecting payment, he might stop once you introduced a "wage" for it. Same for good behaviour, will you have to buy good days with him in the future?

.. and if he is going to go anyway whether he is polite or not then perhaps this might scupper any potential gain in terms of behaviour?

Hi OP I have a tricky nearly 9 year old.
I think this will feel like pressure on him and agree with the pp who have said he might then just stop trying when he gets to the target.
I do feel some of the behaviour might not exactly be fully in his control (hormones and psychological development) so that he will feel punished if he can't control it all the time.
I like the idea of his contributing but that the conversation would be more useful if it were about wanting to do so, such as sacrificing one of his treats, or earning as much as possible by helping out.
I've found the work of Marshall Rosenberg on non violent communication very useful with my 2 DSs.

do they have something like this every year? Are there longer, more expensive trips in Y5 and Y6? If so are you going to do this every year?

I think the principle of getting him to earn things is fine, but if this is the sort of trip where 98% of the year group go, I don't think it's the right thing to make him "pay" for. You hated being the kid who didn't get to go, fair enough, why do you want him to be the kid who has to "pay" for his own trip when the rest will probably just get it as given? I don't think you breed entitlement by treating him like his peers. If it's a special unusual trip and only a few get to go, then it's a treat, go for it. But if it's not really that optional and he doesn't have a realistic choice not to go, then it's not the right thing to have this stand over.

I think it's too much money to ask him to contribute at age9. I would just pay as you've decided he is definitely going.

Greater restrictions on screen time are the best immediate response to backchat etc IMO.

I also feel you need to draw a line under 'everytime it comes back to he wants a sibling'. You're right it's not his decision so when you get to that point tell him that is completely outside his control and ask him what can he address that is within his control?

I was always more motivated by rewards as a child but was never expected to earn money towards something that I would be able to do regardless of whether I earned it or not. I quite like the idea of asking him to earn some spending money for the trip, that way if he doesn't earn it and/or misbehaves and has money taken off him it will mean he has to face the consequence of having no money to spend while he is on the trip.

I agree that it is really important for him to have the opportunity to go, my best friend was unable to go on our school residential because her mum (a single parent of 3) couldn't afford it. She was the only one and felt very left out.

I agree with @nearlyalways50. I feel as though this is almost all i say on mumsnet at the moment, but behaviour is communication. Him being difficult is him communicating he is struggling. You piling on the consequences or demands is going to make it worse. Whether you understand the reasons for him struggling at the moment or not, yet, that is what he is communicating. Punishing him for it won't help (according to the psychologists!)

I completely disagree with @Rainatnight's suggestion for the same reason. It won't help, it will make things worse and put a strain on your connection with him.

Re the behaviour work on the connection with him, make sure he knows the expectations about behaviour, and why, and to keep trying to work out what is causing the problem with the behaviour.

Re the trip, although making a demand or misleading him about it being a reward, you could see how he feels about working to help contribute to the cost of the holiday, as he may love that idea (my dc would - though might need a bit of prod to actually do it) and it might help his confidence if he thinks he is contributing - not because he has to or to get a reward, just because.

At least if he is away for a few days you get a break from him. Silver linings and all that op......

I wouldn't be asking a 9 year old to contribute to a school trip and i wouldnt be rewarding him for helping with chores around the house, regarding his behaviour i would be limiting tv time, any video game times, stopping any treats he's used to having and putting him to bed a bit earlier for misbehaving .

Excellent idea, wish I'd thought it when they were that age. Still I've always brought them to be aware of the cost of things and that I couldn't afford all the things they wished for, ie. treats when already paying a lot for a day out/holidays. They've always accepted it and it's paid off as now my eldest at uni works weekends and holidays to pay for her living and youngest don't ask for hardly anything at all and always suggest using the money he gets for Xmas and birthdays.

Tricky

I understand that you want him to learn to be kinder and more pleasant, but what will he actually learn ? That he can go anyway ?

And after the trip?

I like the sound of @TheInebriati 's approach.

Enidbrighton, I really feel for you with expensive school trips - not everyone can 'just find' large sums of money. Like you, I missed out as my parents just simply could not afford it and now my lovely, kind, uncomplaining, hardworking stepdaughter is going to be the ONLY one in her year not going on a £500 (£500!!) trip to a European country in July. She feels very excluded already as virtually the only child of her ethnicity in her school and this is even more divisive. Its crap, absolute crap, my partner is a full time PhD student, not working, my salary, above NMW, but well below average, has to keep us all, pay the rent, all bills, food, there is nothing left - in fact I have to subsidise it all each month from what little savings I have. The look of disapppointment on my stepdaughter's face when we told her we just haven't the money will haunt me for a very long time...I feel like a complete shit.
I really do think these expensive trips should not happen - it is totally unfair on children not in wealthy families, further undermines their self esteem and leads to yet more taunting.

I sincerely hope that you find a resolution somehow so that your son can go, best of luck.

Good idea in principle, but I would suggest you separate it from your existing attitude issues. He earns the trip by giving back somehow, can he help younger kids practice their reading etc? Can he visit granny and help with her cleaning? He may well end up respecting you more through the process anyway, but you don’t want to complicate things down the line once the carrot has gone.

I used to "earn" my right to go on school trips. It was never linked to the money side of it, but I knew bad behaviour meant I was not going and my parents were fully prepared to stop me going regardless whether they had paid in full or not.

I still remember a trip to millenium dome, where my behaviour was less than expected before the trip. Somehow I got to go, but I had no spending money as punishment, and coming away with a single plastic bottle pencil bought by the teachers.

I used to get annoyed when I was a child that it was never automatically a Yes to going on a trip, and the "do you deserve to?" was always proposed, when all my freinds came in the next day with their funds and were guaranted to go regardles of their behaviour (at least from my perspective). Looking back as an adult it probably wasn't the case, and even if it were, I learnt more from it.

I should add that if he falls short of the 'half', I would of course pay the balance of the trip and congratulate/praise him for his contribution to it. I should also clarify I'm not asking him to use his pocket money or birthday money, just to be polite, pick up after himself, and do some odd jobs. So I'll still be paying it anyway, but may ingrain some good habits in him in the process!

If you'd done this to me as a child I would have figured it out, not done the chores knowing you would pay anyway and then not believe any future consequences you set out because I'd think you were an easily manipulated soft touch.

Sorry I know that sounds harsh but I would've figured this out in ten seconds flat.

You might end up teaching him a lesson but it could well be a very different one to the one you're intending!

I wouldn't link the trip to his behaviour. Either let him go or not and if you can't afford it then maybe he could put some of his own birthday/Xmas money towards it.

I would however get him helping round the house to earn some weekly pocket money. He automatically has half and the other half can be docked due to poor behaviour. Saying that, I was always more inclined to limit consoles at this age and make ds earn screen time rather than stop it for poor behaviour.

I think it’s a good idea OP. Go for it.

Amlot of pps are objectivg on the grounds that there is no ‘consequence’ or follow through if his behaviour does not improve.

But there doesn’t always have to be a consequence. This is a bribe more than a threat, and that’s okay. It may not be a permanent solution, but then again, a few weeks of positivity together can really get things on a positive trajectory and turn a situation around.

Behaviour management is not about being able to manipulate and control kids but about being able to motivate and give them opportunities to be their best selves. I think you know this and I think your plan sounds good. Trust your own instincts on this one