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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Should men be allowed to "opt out" of parenthood?

999 replies

Jemimapuddleduckpancake · 20/06/2019 09:08

My friend has a child who was ultimately the result of a very casual, friends with benefits type situation. The father was immediately sure that he didn't want a baby and told her from the very beginning. He wasn't around and didn't help out for the first couple of years, but has now decided that he wants to have access to the child and start to build a relationship now he is older.

My friend doesn't trust him, doesn't like him, and is deeply hurt over all the things she has had to go through alone because of his previous lack of involvement and support. But she's worried that she is totally unable to prevent him from ever having access, and feels that he has put her in a horrible and stressful situation.

Which led us to think about this.

When a woman falls pregnant from a one night stand or casual-sex type scenario, she can choose whether to keep the baby, or go through an abortion or out the baby up for adoption. Thus ultimately "opting out" of parenthood.

A man in the same situation has no such right to opt out of parenthood. He has to accept the woman's decision and his life will be impacted by the woman's decision.

My friend believes that she was unrealistic during pregnancy. She firmly believed that the dad would "come round", that he'd see the baby and suddenly fall in love and want to be involved. But of course this didn't happen.

So we started to discuss, what if there was the option for a man to "opt out" of parenthood? It would, of course, have to be done very early on - before the baby was 1 month old, for example. Her idea is that this could be done by signing a legal document stating that he has no desire to be a part of the child's life in any way, will not ever be able to seek any type of access, and will not pay money. This move would have to be irreversible in order to be taken seriously. (Perhaps there could be some terms and conditions like the situation can be reversed but only with the mother's permission).

Now, i know a lot of women on Mumsnet like to say that if a man doesn't want a child then he shouldn't have sex or should use contraception. But I believe in total equality between the sexes and feel that this is unfair. Two people choose to have sex, two people choose whether or not to use contraception, but only one person can decide whether or not they will keep a child if an accident does happen.

I know so many people whose lives are made miserable by constantly battling men for money for their child, or by trying to encourage contact between their child and a man who just isn't interested.

Don't get me wrong - I think this is awful. But wouldn't it save the mother and the child both significant stress and heartache if they can live their lives without these battles? Surely knowing where you stand from the very start will stop all the disappointment and the emotional rollercoaster and stress that so many people experience.

And is it fair for a women to force a child (or the responsibilities that come from having a child, like maintainance) onto a man who knows immediately that he doesn't want a child?

My friend says that with hindsight, she just don't see how this current situation benefits anyone. Men can easily belittle women by claiming that they were "tricked" into having a baby. If there was this "opt out" system, they wouldn't be able to argue this!

The mother also wouldn't have to worry about a deadbeat dad who hasn't done anything for her/her child suddenly popping up deciding they now want to be in the child's life.

My friend says that looking back, although it seems harsh, knowing that this "opt out" system existed would his would actually have helped her. She'd have been much more prepared for single parenthood, much more prepared for being financially responsible for the baby by herself. She'd have been able to prepare better and not have the crushing blows and disappointment and feelings of rejection that come from his behaviour. She'd also not have to now worry about granting a man who is (now) a virtual stranger access to her child.

She thinks that if a man doesn't sign this before baby is month old, then he can't sign it at all, and will be fully responsible for the child in terms is maintainance and anything else, which should then be more strictly implemented (harsher punishments for not paying, for example).

(I thought maybe it would be better if the deadline for opting out was before baby's birth, but she says she still believes that some men will see their child at the birth and fall in love and therefore be given the chance to be involved.)

Of course there would have to be some regulations like if a women can prove that a baby was discussed or planned then the man can't opt out, for example.

What do the rest of you think? I'm really curious about this. On the one hand yes, if you don't want a baby then use contraception. But on the other hand, accidents happen and I can't help but agree with my friend that men should be allowed to opt out just as women can.

At first I thought this was a crazy idea but the more I think about it, the more I think it could help. The UK could issue MUCH stricter punishments to men who don't pay (because if they haven't opted out then they have no right at all, and no excuses, like they make now). It would in many ways protect the mother and child too.

Thoughts, anyone?

(Please don't kill me, I'm just curious to hear ideas from all sides, I'm not fully persuaded! Not that what I think really matters - and it won't happen anyway. But would it be better or worse for people if it did?)

OP posts:
JacquesHammer · 20/06/2019 12:00

Moralitym1n1

Absolutely with you. And surely how any decent man would behave!

Moralitym1n1 · 20/06/2019 12:00

Women can ultimately choose whether or not they want that responsibility. Men can’t.

Yes they can!!!

For the thousandth time; they don't have to fuck. It is their choice to fuck.

CJsGoldfish · 20/06/2019 12:00

I was just balancing out the poster who seemed to think it was only sperm that was involved
Hopefully no one is that clueless. Grin

aPengTing · 20/06/2019 12:01

Would there be a limit to the amount of children a man could opt out on? Will he be free to have as many children as he likes but have no financial responsibility for?

Moralitym1n1 · 20/06/2019 12:01

No man ever died from having a wank or being wanked or having a blow job, instead of fucking.

CJsGoldfish · 20/06/2019 12:02

What, baby’s or babies?
Either Grin
Funny, I managed babies three times!
Uh-huh

Moralitym1n1 · 20/06/2019 12:03

Don't squirt your baby batter up some womans vagina and then do "Woe is me" if they pregnant through accident, foolishness, manipulative-ness. You didn't have to. Sperm meeting eggs can create babies. Did you miss that biology class?

IsabellaLinton · 20/06/2019 12:04

@Ginlinessisnexttogodliness

I don’t think many women who are left with zero input or support from the father of the children from birth find life to be a cakewalk.

I don’t disagree.

I think, if you should ever question they entered into motherhood on a whim they would be fairly quick to disabuse you.

I never said they did enter in on a whim.

Even for the single mothers who do get support from their children’s father, it is still very often the women who are faced with the very real responsibilities day in day out.

I don’t really understand why this is an argument. Children are a responsibility. If you want a child, you shoulder that responsibility. Women have choices - if they know from the outset that the father won’t be involved, they make the choice to take on that responsibility. Or they could choose to surrender custody to the father, or share custody. No one is forcing women to take up that responsibility and then complain that all the responsibility falls to them.

Moralitym1n1 · 20/06/2019 12:05

*fall pregnant.

Why the fk should everyone but you pay for your ejaculations/orgasms?!

CJsGoldfish · 20/06/2019 12:06

Women can ultimately choose whether or not they want that responsibility. Men can’t
Yes they can.

I’m not a man-hating harpy
🤣🤣🤣

IsabellaLinton · 20/06/2019 12:06

For the thousandth time; women don't have to fuck. It is their choice to fuck.

Fixed it in the interests of equality Smile

IsabellaLinton · 20/06/2019 12:08

Why the fk should everyone but you pay for your ejaculations/orgasms?!

Apparently it’s ok when women do it. Women can have a baby and hand everyone else the bill. Because they’re women. Equal in everything except personal responsibility.

Frequency · 20/06/2019 12:09

For the thousandth time; women don't have to fuck. It is their choice to fuck

Well, quite but last time I checked the interwebs wasn't full of women moaning that they got pregnant and now have to deal with the consequences of choosing to have unprotected sex. Women don't fight for their right to create babies and then not contribute financially to the cost of raising them.

JacquesHammer · 20/06/2019 12:10

Fixed it in the interests of equality

Not so much with the biology? Huh?

IsabellaLinton · 20/06/2019 12:11

Well, quite but last time I checked the interwebs wasn't full of women moaning that they got pregnant and now have to deal with the consequences of choosing to have unprotected sex.

How long have you been on Mumsnet? Grin

BishopBrennansArse · 20/06/2019 12:12

I'm more about the rights of the child, tbh. And being supported properly by both parents waaaaay trumps a man's right to shag anything that moves without regard to the consequences.

MirriVan · 20/06/2019 12:12

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

IsabellaLinton · 20/06/2019 12:13

Being supported properly by both parents waaaaay trumps a woman's right to shag anything that moves without regard to the consequences.

IsabellaLinton · 20/06/2019 12:14

Sperm causes pregnancy. Men, cause pregnancy.

Eggs cause pregnancy! Women cause pregnancy! Who knew? Grin

CJsGoldfish · 20/06/2019 12:15

Women can have a baby and hand everyone else the bill
Everyone? Or just the person who chose not to prevent a pregnancy?
Who is 'everyone' in this context?

pikapikachu · 20/06/2019 12:15

If men were able to opt it it would have to be well before the abortion cut off.

The idea is a method for the father to financially and emotionally abuse the mother until at least the cut off date. In the UK, non-payment/abandonment by fathers is not seen as a big deal. Even if a man didn't "opt out", he can easily leave and start again.

I believe that you can sign away parental rights in places like the US and I can't help but wonder how that feels for a child. I suspect that the main benefit of such a system is the Dad who escapes financial responsibility.

Men need to be responsible for their semen. Opting out of the consequences legally is an excuse not to use contraception.

IsabellaLinton · 20/06/2019 12:17

Women can have a baby and hand everyone else the bill. Everyone? Or just the person who chose not to prevent a pregnancy?

The woman chose not to prevent or end the pregnancy. If you don’t want to get pregnant, don’t. It’s not hard.

Who is 'everyone' in this context?

The taxpayer.

MirriVan · 20/06/2019 12:18

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

JacquesHammer · 20/06/2019 12:18

Being supported properly by both parents waaaaay trumps a woman's right to shag anything that moves without regard to the consequences

Why? I can fuck about to my heart’s content. I have choices POST conception regarding the pregnancy.

A man has his choice PRE conception. That’s his only chance for choice.

I mean, I want to say it’s not rocket science but apparently it’s a concept just too huge for understanding.

Pinkmouse6 · 20/06/2019 12:19

I think they should only be able to opt out if it’s also what the woman wants. If the woman wants him to be a Father or at least pay CM then no, he doesn’t have a right to.

I have no sympathy for men ‘forced’ to become Fathers. They chose to ejaculate inside of the woman, they weren’t raped. They know having any sex is a risk, all they can do is reduce that risk with condoms. If they choose not to use condoms then honestly, more fool them.