Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Should men be allowed to "opt out" of parenthood?

999 replies

Jemimapuddleduckpancake · 20/06/2019 09:08

My friend has a child who was ultimately the result of a very casual, friends with benefits type situation. The father was immediately sure that he didn't want a baby and told her from the very beginning. He wasn't around and didn't help out for the first couple of years, but has now decided that he wants to have access to the child and start to build a relationship now he is older.

My friend doesn't trust him, doesn't like him, and is deeply hurt over all the things she has had to go through alone because of his previous lack of involvement and support. But she's worried that she is totally unable to prevent him from ever having access, and feels that he has put her in a horrible and stressful situation.

Which led us to think about this.

When a woman falls pregnant from a one night stand or casual-sex type scenario, she can choose whether to keep the baby, or go through an abortion or out the baby up for adoption. Thus ultimately "opting out" of parenthood.

A man in the same situation has no such right to opt out of parenthood. He has to accept the woman's decision and his life will be impacted by the woman's decision.

My friend believes that she was unrealistic during pregnancy. She firmly believed that the dad would "come round", that he'd see the baby and suddenly fall in love and want to be involved. But of course this didn't happen.

So we started to discuss, what if there was the option for a man to "opt out" of parenthood? It would, of course, have to be done very early on - before the baby was 1 month old, for example. Her idea is that this could be done by signing a legal document stating that he has no desire to be a part of the child's life in any way, will not ever be able to seek any type of access, and will not pay money. This move would have to be irreversible in order to be taken seriously. (Perhaps there could be some terms and conditions like the situation can be reversed but only with the mother's permission).

Now, i know a lot of women on Mumsnet like to say that if a man doesn't want a child then he shouldn't have sex or should use contraception. But I believe in total equality between the sexes and feel that this is unfair. Two people choose to have sex, two people choose whether or not to use contraception, but only one person can decide whether or not they will keep a child if an accident does happen.

I know so many people whose lives are made miserable by constantly battling men for money for their child, or by trying to encourage contact between their child and a man who just isn't interested.

Don't get me wrong - I think this is awful. But wouldn't it save the mother and the child both significant stress and heartache if they can live their lives without these battles? Surely knowing where you stand from the very start will stop all the disappointment and the emotional rollercoaster and stress that so many people experience.

And is it fair for a women to force a child (or the responsibilities that come from having a child, like maintainance) onto a man who knows immediately that he doesn't want a child?

My friend says that with hindsight, she just don't see how this current situation benefits anyone. Men can easily belittle women by claiming that they were "tricked" into having a baby. If there was this "opt out" system, they wouldn't be able to argue this!

The mother also wouldn't have to worry about a deadbeat dad who hasn't done anything for her/her child suddenly popping up deciding they now want to be in the child's life.

My friend says that looking back, although it seems harsh, knowing that this "opt out" system existed would his would actually have helped her. She'd have been much more prepared for single parenthood, much more prepared for being financially responsible for the baby by herself. She'd have been able to prepare better and not have the crushing blows and disappointment and feelings of rejection that come from his behaviour. She'd also not have to now worry about granting a man who is (now) a virtual stranger access to her child.

She thinks that if a man doesn't sign this before baby is month old, then he can't sign it at all, and will be fully responsible for the child in terms is maintainance and anything else, which should then be more strictly implemented (harsher punishments for not paying, for example).

(I thought maybe it would be better if the deadline for opting out was before baby's birth, but she says she still believes that some men will see their child at the birth and fall in love and therefore be given the chance to be involved.)

Of course there would have to be some regulations like if a women can prove that a baby was discussed or planned then the man can't opt out, for example.

What do the rest of you think? I'm really curious about this. On the one hand yes, if you don't want a baby then use contraception. But on the other hand, accidents happen and I can't help but agree with my friend that men should be allowed to opt out just as women can.

At first I thought this was a crazy idea but the more I think about it, the more I think it could help. The UK could issue MUCH stricter punishments to men who don't pay (because if they haven't opted out then they have no right at all, and no excuses, like they make now). It would in many ways protect the mother and child too.

Thoughts, anyone?

(Please don't kill me, I'm just curious to hear ideas from all sides, I'm not fully persuaded! Not that what I think really matters - and it won't happen anyway. But would it be better or worse for people if it did?)

OP posts:
Somerville · 20/06/2019 11:38

Children raised in poverty because their fathers are selfish shit stains who don’t contribute are the fault of their mothers who didn’t terminate?
😂😂😂😂

Where has this idea come from that we must legislate to make everything fair come from? Biology is a natural process with no inherent fairness. And the majority of the unfairness is stacked against women... men don’t have the physical trauma of pregnancy or birth, and that’s only the start.

LemonGingerCakes · 20/06/2019 11:39

Yeah, all those women, living the CMS high life of Lamborghinis and oysters while their children eat worms in the shed. Happens all the time. Probably best we just abolish child maintenance altogether, don’t you think?

You are being ridiculous. Rather spout silly stuff like this than look at reality.

Cegbee · 20/06/2019 11:40

I personally think there should be stronger sanctions for men that do decide they want to 'opt out', not the other way around. Adults know how babies are made and life involves all sorts of responsibility that is not always wanted. Tough shit!

Frequency · 20/06/2019 11:41

In the interests of making things 100% equal can I have the choice to only be a parent when it suits me? i.e when I can take pictures for Facebook?

I'll see my children every other weekend and one week night unless I am going out or just don't feel like it. I reserve the right to not let the children or the main care giver know I've changed my mind about parenting that weekend until an hour after I was due to collect them. I may or may not demand to see them at short notice during the week if I decide I can't see them on the weekend. I'll pay £100 a month towards the cost of raising them unless I have unexpected bills to pay or feel like booking a weekend away instead, then I'll cancel the direct debit and claim I don't know what happened when the CMS get in touch and ask why. I'll repay my CMS arrears at the rate of £2 a week. Oh, and while I'm doing all that I want to maintain my right to call out the main care giver when I feel they are doing a subpar job at raising my precious off-spring. I still want the right to report them to SS for not doing what I am also not doing.

Can we make a law that says both parents have the right to do the above without losing PR or facing criminal charges for neglect? Fair is fair, after all.

Moralitym1n1 · 20/06/2019 11:41

*And how do those women in abusive relationships make the choice?

That have a termination or take the MAP without the man even knowing they’re pregnant.*

You don't sound like you have much cop on about abusive relationships.

CJsGoldfish · 20/06/2019 11:42

Without a woman there is no baby

A man can wear a condom, a woman can take the pill

Surely you do understand that yeah? No egg, no pregnancy

Without a woman, there is no baby. A woman can make the ‘ultimate choice’ regardless of whether a man uses contraception

Surely you do understand that yeah? No egg, contraception in place, no physical conditions conducive to pregnancy, no pregnancy

Of course. How bizarre. Not sure where anyone has said otherwise Confused

No, but I know how babies are made.
Yeah, I'm not convinced that you do Grin

I see another MRA has joined the party. lol

aPengTing · 20/06/2019 11:43

LemonGingerCakes, do you really believe a woman in an abusive relationship where contraception is forbidden, her movements monitored, financially abused etc has a free choice to take the MAP or get an abortion? Really?

Many women leave only once the child is born, they should not be punished by poverty and neither should the child because of the actions of a man.

IsabellaLinton · 20/06/2019 11:43

Adults know how babies are made and life involves all sorts of responsibility that is not always wanted. Tough shit!

Women can ultimately choose whether or not they want that responsibility. Men can’t. Tough shit indeed.

Somerville · 20/06/2019 11:43

I’ve got some more ideas for biological fairness.

Every man who wanted a child should have surgery to replicate the stretch marks and birth injuries that the child’s mother gained in having them. Also an equivalent amount of time as they spent in labour on medication that causes agonising pain.

And for every hour the mother spends breastfeeding the father should have to wear nipple clamps.

LemonGingerCakes · 20/06/2019 11:45

Of course. How bizarre. Not sure where anyone has said otherwise

I was just balancing out the poster who seemed to think it was only sperm that was involved Wink

IsabellaLinton · 20/06/2019 11:47

@aPengTing

Why pretend that abusive relationships where women have no agency are the norm? They’re not.

Many women leave only once the child is born, they should not be punished by poverty and neither should the child because of the actions of a man.

It’s possible to have sympathy with those in awful situations yet still require as many people as possible not in that situation to take personal responsibility for their decisions.

Somerville · 20/06/2019 11:48

Actually, let’s make it even fairer. Men benefit from the biological unfairness that women experience whether they have children or not - because they get to be born of a woman. So every adult male should have surgery to replicate any and all negative consequences his mother received in bearing him.

IsabellaLinton · 20/06/2019 11:49

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

JacquesHammer · 20/06/2019 11:49

Are you under the impression that women do not abuse this? Then you are very naive. What it’s supposed to be for and what happens is often very different in reality

In what way are they "abusing" their maintenance?

Do you really think there's any comparison in the number of women who allegedly "abuse" the system, and the billions of pounds of maintenance owed by men?

LemonGingerCakes · 20/06/2019 11:49

Every man who wanted a child should have surgery to replicate the stretch marks and birth injuries that the child’s mother gained in having them. Also an equivalent amount of time as they spent in labour on medication that causes agonising pain.

And for every hour the mother spends breastfeeding the father should have to wear nipple clamps.

You’re being ridiculous.

Again. Equality and fairness are not the same.

I’m leaving this silly thread now.

IsabellaLinton · 20/06/2019 11:52

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Ginlinessisnexttogodliness · 20/06/2019 11:52

@IsabellaLinton what makes you say that?

I am a very responsible person. I understand that the grown up side of choice is responsibility and so i exercise both in consideration of one another.

In terms of becoming a mother, those choices and responsibilities have involving compromise but sacrifices and these were willingly made. I make those in conjunction with my children’s father. We have given up different things in different ways. Even though we are together and shoulder these responsibilities together it is myself who has given up the most, insofar as were we to ever separate my day to day life would be pretty much exactly the same.

So yes, I understand responsibility for having rights to my body and in this case my womb.

I don’t think many women who are left with zero input or support from the father of the children from birth find life to be a cakewalk. I think, if you should ever question they entered into motherhood on a whim they would be fairly quick to disabuse you.

Furthermore even for the single mothers who do get support from their children’s father, it is still very often the women who are faced with the very real responsibilities day in day out.

Responsibility in this case - whichever way you cut the cake - is as great as it gets.

A requirement that the person whom created this child with you to provide financial support - for the benefit of the child - is not an route to abrogation of your own individual parental responsibilities for the vast, vast majority of women.

aPengTing · 20/06/2019 11:53

Why pretend that abusive relationships where women have no agency are the norm? They’re not

They are uncommon and have to be given serious consideration.

It’s possible to have sympathy with those in awful situations yet still require as many people as possible not in that situation to take personal responsibility for their decisions

So how would we protect the women and children in the abusive situation? Or the women who’s partners up and leave part way through the pregnancy deciding they want to opt out?

DecomposingComposers · 20/06/2019 11:54

Is the OP really talking about men being able to choose to opt out of parenting though?

It sounds like in this case the dad does want to be involved (although late in the day) but the mum doesn't want to co parent with a stranger and seems to want a law that removes fathers form the child's life.

The OP is framing this as a father opting out clause but that wouldn't help her friend because the dad wants to be involved. It seems to me that the friend actually wants a way for mums to be able to remove fathers that they don't want to co parent with.

Surely the way to ensure you don't co parent with a stranger is not to have sex with a stranger? If you do, and get pregnant and choose to keep the baby then you do so knowing that this person will be in your life from now on.

JacquesHammer · 20/06/2019 11:55

I’m not a man-hating harpy

Goodness how original Confused

Ginlinessisnexttogodliness · 20/06/2019 11:55

@LemonGingerCakes “oh get over yourself”

You didn’t answer my question. At all.
And I’m not sure what I’m supposed to be getting over.

Moralitym1n1 · 20/06/2019 11:56

*The SECOND a man penetrates a woman, he should know (or at least any man with an ounce of gumption should know) that a pregnancy can occur.

THAT is the point he gets to opt out of parenthood either by absteining/wearing a condom.

If he chooses to go ahead, then its possible a pregnancy can occur. Should he be able to opt out because he didn't have the wit to consider it? Nah.*

Exactly.

And the reverse applies to women.

JacquesHammer · 20/06/2019 11:56

Posts about women abusing maintenance always put me in mind of a mindset common among children - that when they get money they have to spend the exact same note they get given because that’s the present.

JacquesHammer · 20/06/2019 11:57

And the reverse applies to women

Sure, but my point being women do - should they wish to exercise it - have more points they can decide not to have a baby. For a man there’s only one, so he can’t pretend it’s a surprise!

Moralitym1n1 · 20/06/2019 11:58

He also does it with the knowledge that condoms can fail and he can't force a MAP or abortion. That is the deal he accepts rather than abstain.