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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Should men be allowed to "opt out" of parenthood?

999 replies

Jemimapuddleduckpancake · 20/06/2019 09:08

My friend has a child who was ultimately the result of a very casual, friends with benefits type situation. The father was immediately sure that he didn't want a baby and told her from the very beginning. He wasn't around and didn't help out for the first couple of years, but has now decided that he wants to have access to the child and start to build a relationship now he is older.

My friend doesn't trust him, doesn't like him, and is deeply hurt over all the things she has had to go through alone because of his previous lack of involvement and support. But she's worried that she is totally unable to prevent him from ever having access, and feels that he has put her in a horrible and stressful situation.

Which led us to think about this.

When a woman falls pregnant from a one night stand or casual-sex type scenario, she can choose whether to keep the baby, or go through an abortion or out the baby up for adoption. Thus ultimately "opting out" of parenthood.

A man in the same situation has no such right to opt out of parenthood. He has to accept the woman's decision and his life will be impacted by the woman's decision.

My friend believes that she was unrealistic during pregnancy. She firmly believed that the dad would "come round", that he'd see the baby and suddenly fall in love and want to be involved. But of course this didn't happen.

So we started to discuss, what if there was the option for a man to "opt out" of parenthood? It would, of course, have to be done very early on - before the baby was 1 month old, for example. Her idea is that this could be done by signing a legal document stating that he has no desire to be a part of the child's life in any way, will not ever be able to seek any type of access, and will not pay money. This move would have to be irreversible in order to be taken seriously. (Perhaps there could be some terms and conditions like the situation can be reversed but only with the mother's permission).

Now, i know a lot of women on Mumsnet like to say that if a man doesn't want a child then he shouldn't have sex or should use contraception. But I believe in total equality between the sexes and feel that this is unfair. Two people choose to have sex, two people choose whether or not to use contraception, but only one person can decide whether or not they will keep a child if an accident does happen.

I know so many people whose lives are made miserable by constantly battling men for money for their child, or by trying to encourage contact between their child and a man who just isn't interested.

Don't get me wrong - I think this is awful. But wouldn't it save the mother and the child both significant stress and heartache if they can live their lives without these battles? Surely knowing where you stand from the very start will stop all the disappointment and the emotional rollercoaster and stress that so many people experience.

And is it fair for a women to force a child (or the responsibilities that come from having a child, like maintainance) onto a man who knows immediately that he doesn't want a child?

My friend says that with hindsight, she just don't see how this current situation benefits anyone. Men can easily belittle women by claiming that they were "tricked" into having a baby. If there was this "opt out" system, they wouldn't be able to argue this!

The mother also wouldn't have to worry about a deadbeat dad who hasn't done anything for her/her child suddenly popping up deciding they now want to be in the child's life.

My friend says that looking back, although it seems harsh, knowing that this "opt out" system existed would his would actually have helped her. She'd have been much more prepared for single parenthood, much more prepared for being financially responsible for the baby by herself. She'd have been able to prepare better and not have the crushing blows and disappointment and feelings of rejection that come from his behaviour. She'd also not have to now worry about granting a man who is (now) a virtual stranger access to her child.

She thinks that if a man doesn't sign this before baby is month old, then he can't sign it at all, and will be fully responsible for the child in terms is maintainance and anything else, which should then be more strictly implemented (harsher punishments for not paying, for example).

(I thought maybe it would be better if the deadline for opting out was before baby's birth, but she says she still believes that some men will see their child at the birth and fall in love and therefore be given the chance to be involved.)

Of course there would have to be some regulations like if a women can prove that a baby was discussed or planned then the man can't opt out, for example.

What do the rest of you think? I'm really curious about this. On the one hand yes, if you don't want a baby then use contraception. But on the other hand, accidents happen and I can't help but agree with my friend that men should be allowed to opt out just as women can.

At first I thought this was a crazy idea but the more I think about it, the more I think it could help. The UK could issue MUCH stricter punishments to men who don't pay (because if they haven't opted out then they have no right at all, and no excuses, like they make now). It would in many ways protect the mother and child too.

Thoughts, anyone?

(Please don't kill me, I'm just curious to hear ideas from all sides, I'm not fully persuaded! Not that what I think really matters - and it won't happen anyway. But would it be better or worse for people if it did?)

OP posts:
herculepoirot2 · 20/06/2019 09:26

Lolalouisa

Well aren’t you noble Hmm

It is not “guilt-tripping” to expect a man to support his child.

herculepoirot2 · 20/06/2019 09:27

But surely men also deserve to have a say in whether they raise a child?

They have a say. They don’t have to father a child.

VivienneHolt · 20/06/2019 09:28

realistically I believe men have rights too!

Think about the rights you’re actually talking about here. Men already have the right not to be parents. You can’t force parenthood on anyone. Any man who fathers a child does so entirely as the result of his own decisions (except perhaps in vanishingly rare circumstances where a partner has lied to him - but even then, he still made a willing choice to have sex knowing that pregnancy is a possible consequence).

What you’re saying is that a man should have the choice to opt out of taking responsibility for his decisions.

You’re saying men - who already bear so much less of the burden of having children than women - should be able to walk away from their responsibilities simply because they want to.

How is this fair or equal...?

VenusOfWillendorf · 20/06/2019 09:28

I don't agree with this - it's far too easy already for men to walk away from their responsibilities - making it even easier is an awful idea. However, if it was brought in, the 'opt-out' would need to be up to the same point that it's legal to terminate the pregnancy and no later.

53rdWay · 20/06/2019 09:28

And surely what is best for a child is to be raised by one loving parent then to be constantly disappointed by an absent /disinterested parent

Surely the best solution to this would be fathers being less absent/disinterested? Rather than providing a legal way to codify said absence/disinterest and trying to get a bunch of women signed up to your Deadbeat Dads’ Charter because hey ladies, it’s all about equality?

SpacedOutDog · 20/06/2019 09:29

The mother doesn't have to become a mother either @herculespoirot2
There's enough contraception freely available to prevent it.

Bluestitch · 20/06/2019 09:29

That is a choice for her. The man doesn't get that choice.

Yes because of biology, men and women get to make different choices at different stages. Tbh in my experience of attempting OLD, in my friends experiences and in things I've read on here, a very large number of men already take a very casual approach to safe sex. They seem very happy to want to ejaculate condomless into women despite knowing that is where their input into decisions ends. Instead of making it even easier for men to take no responsibility for their reproduction we should be enforcing their duties more strongly. Children are the ones who have rights.

VivienneHolt · 20/06/2019 09:29

But surely men also deserve to have a say in whether they raise a child?

They already have a say. No men are forced to have contact or raise their kids.

What they can’t do is walk away from responsibility for paying for their child, because the child didn’t ask to be born to a deadbeat father and it’s needs exist regardless of how good their dad is.

Why would you prioritise the rights of a reckless man over the actual needs of a baby? It’s impossible for me to see how you feel this is justified.

BanginChoons · 20/06/2019 09:30

That is a choice for her. The man doesn't get that choice.

It's a choice for her between 2 difficult, life changing options. She can't just choose to opt out. If she chooses not to continue, she has to go through a medical procedure which can have on going health or emotional consequences.

HennyPennyHorror · 20/06/2019 09:30

Men can Wear condoms or not have sex. That's when they get to choose.

herculepoirot2 · 20/06/2019 09:30

SpacedOutDog

The mother has an option to abort a child because it is her body. The man doesn’t, because it isn’t. That’s it, really.

Jemimapuddleduckpancake · 20/06/2019 09:30

SpacedOutDog , yes, this is what I feel a bit uncomfortable about too. Like lots of women talk as though only the man made the decision to have sex. Of course this (hopefully) isn't the case most of the time. It's 2 people's decision to take the risk but then only 1 person gets to choose the outcome.

I'm interested to know what about women who come off of contraception without telling their partner (like coming off the pill without saying anything?) There was a thread on here recently by a man whose wife did that.

It's really complicated. If my husband hadn't wanted our first child, it's not like it would have just been an easy decision to get an abortion or otherwise. Like the "opt out" thing wouldn't help me decide or feel any better or worse about the decision.

But what if I had come off the pill without telling my husband? Is this situation different?

OP posts:
ReganSomerset · 20/06/2019 09:31

I also disagree with the notion that abortion or adoption are opt outs. Both have medical and emotional implications for the mother, both are decisions taken as the parent of an embryo or foetus. No pregnant women gets to just walk away, absolved of all responsibility. I don't see why men should get that chance.

milafawny · 20/06/2019 09:31

Yes, before he voluntarily gives his sperm to a female. once you give it away, its the womans choice what happens next. Upon doing that act, you have agreed to parent a potential offspring. Men have four choices. Condoms. Vasectomy. Abstain. Parent. They can have an opinion on pregnancy, but not a choice. Their choice is while they have the sperm. Men should be forced to take financial responsibility for children, much like in other countries where missing payments can be grounds for criminal actions. Men are much more likely to attempt to create a relationship with a child they are paying for. Obviously there will still be cases where both parties agree the father shouldnt be in the childs life, or when forcing a man into a childs life isnt in their best interest (result of sexual abuse of DV for instance) but these should be considered on an individual bases. As a whole, men should be made to support children they create through voluntary consensual sex where they knew the potential outcome was a child.

herculepoirot2 · 20/06/2019 09:31

This is MRA, by the way. Just so we know.

Nathalie1975 · 20/06/2019 09:31

I agree that men should be able to opt out. But the deadline for opting out should be a few weeks before the deadline for abortion. This way the woman could make an informed decision on whether she wants to keep the baby or not.

mawof3soontobe · 20/06/2019 09:31

I think forcing men into parenthood using the excuse of he should've thought of that before he had sex, or used better condoms of it fails etc is absolutely double standards and absurd. I would never EVER consider saying to a lady who was distraught and considering adoption or abortion "we'll tough shit you should've thought of that before opening your legs". You can't preach about equality and women's rights and disregard the rights of men not to be fathers when it is physically out of their control whereas a woman still has power to decide the outcome. That being said it opens an entire can of worms on whether men who DO want the child and the woman doesn't and should he have a say in her aborting which I do not agree with. Bodily autonomy is one thing you can't mess with imo

HavelockVetinari · 20/06/2019 09:32

The mother has the option to get rid

GET RID? Angry This is a fucking human being you're talking about here, not a piece of old rubbish! Yes, some women have abortions, but almost never without very carefully weighing up the options - it's usually a last resort and very much agonized over.

How dare you talk about it so casually as if it's as quick and easy as putting on a condom? Angry

BanginChoons · 20/06/2019 09:32

There already are men who do opt out of parenting with no consequence.

What you are suggesting is that men can opt out of paying, which results in hardship for a child, a minor with no means to support themselves.

It's a no from me.

Lolalouisa · 20/06/2019 09:32

Why should a man be forced into supporting the pregnancy when women have the choice to an abortion?
It’s not fair and if women can choose whether or not to have the baby, men should be able to choose not to be involved if the woman goes ahead with the pregnancy.
Would you tell a woman who found herself pregnant that she should’ve kept her knickers on?

PregnantSea · 20/06/2019 09:32

It sounds like yet another way for men to take no responsibility for their actions, and pushing all the burden onto the woman even more so. Personally I think abortion does this as well, but I know MN doesn't tend to agree with that.

We don't need any new systems in place encouraging men to be sexually irresponsible and forcing women to deal with the consequences alone. We have quite enough of those already.

I think people should just give more thought in general to who they have sex with. Accept that every single sexual encounter could result in a baby, and make your decisions based on that. This goes for men and women equally.

Someone9 · 20/06/2019 09:32

Making it even easier for men to shirk their responsibilities is never going to be a good idea for women and children. Imagine how a child’s self esteem would be affected when they grow up and learn their dad signed them away. What about women who don’t believe believe in abortion for ethical reasons and feel they have no choice but to go ahead with the pregnancy - they don’t have an “opt out”. I understand the frustration of a man who learns he’s going to be a father when he doesn’t want to be but ultimately every knows the risks of sex so absolving them of all responsibility is misogynistic as it puts all the “blame” on women - haven’t we had enough of that?

IsabellaLinton · 20/06/2019 09:33

Yes, I believe so. In cases of deception, certainly. I know that’s an unusual occurrence, but it does happen. If a woman tells a man she’s on the pill, and isn’t, I don’t believe a man is obligated to support a child he was deceived into thinking wasn’t a possibility.

SerenDippitty · 20/06/2019 09:33

*But surely men also deserve to have a say in whether they raise a child?

They have a say. They don’t have to father a child.*

No method of contraception is 100% reliable. Not even a vasectomy If they take reasonable steps and a pregnancy still happens, they do not have a choice. Yes they could have not had sex but so could the woman, but saying to the woman “well you didn’t have to have sex” is not acceptable especially on MN.

MaximusHeadroom · 20/06/2019 09:33

I think there would be some single parents who would be willing to forego child support in return for the partner to relinquish all rights to the child, particularly in the case of DV or other abuse.

But I don't see a way of this being available without opening up women to coercion. In addition, if someone doesn't want to be involved when they are born but changes their mind later, what is better for the child? If the father of my child opted out at the start but later got his act together and wanted to be in his child's life, should the child miss out on a relationship with that parent?

I totally understand why you would raise it but it is too complex an issue to try and make a simple opt out solution.

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