AIBU about school imposing new sanctions?

[BumbleBeef30]

Today DC came home and said they had assemblies today in which they were told about new sanctions for issues such as having your shirt untucked or missing equipment, e.g. a purple pen.

I don’t mind it when a school has a sudden outbreak of enforcing uniform issues or ensuring all children have the right equipment using the original sanctions because, no matter how silly I may think it is to give a child a detention at break for a missing pen, those are the rules which were on the home-school agreement and I signed up to it.

I didn’t sign up to these new sanctions, which seem overly harsh and likely to punish only those children whose parents can not afford to replace items which break or go missing unexpectedly.

An occurrence of missing a pen now gets you sent to detention for three lessons; two occurrences get you isolation for three lessons; three occurrences get you sent to isolation for a whole day; and four occurrences earn you a fixed term exclusion. Theoretically a child could go to school on Monday without a pen and be excluded by Wednesday.

Before anyone says, I know pens are cheap and fairly easy to replace, but some people are forced to live hand to mouth at the moment, and the same new sanctions apply if you don’t have exactly the right type of shoes. Whereas before it might be a phone call to parents reminding them that shoes need to be lace-up, now it’s an immediate detention followed by isolation.

What’s more is that the school hasn’t sent home any information to parents, apart from an email containing the letter they give all new Year 7s about the standards they expect. No mention of sanctions at all - just a basic “we want every child to succeed and because of this we expect skirts to be knee length, all students to have the correct equipment, etc”.

AIBU to wonder what the fuck is going on at that school? Can schools just change sanctions whenever they feel like it? And should they be introducing these new, much harsher sanctions without letting parents know about them?

LolaSmiles, as far as I know university library corrals don’t punish you for leaning back in your chair.

I think they would ask you to leave in a seminar if you did this more than once or twice. It’s rude and disruptive.

TanyaChix
As an ex teacher and deputy head, I’d suggest that the children keep a very close eye on their teachers and report them if they come to lessons without a working board pen or if they forget their photocopying. It’s amazing how fast this ‘purple pen’ detention bollocks will disappear.

Here ^ is another part of the problem. A member of the SLT (the people that set these rules) who then shit all over the people that have to enforce them. Then complain at them that behaviour in the school is 'poor'.

3 detentions for missing a pen of a particular colour?

Utterly pathetic.

Why are some schools so hell bent on making eduction an unpleasant experience for young people?

And I think you are forgetting that your children do not live at school. They can engage with other young people at home, can’t they?

So as an adult you’d be completely happy with your employer mandating that you couldn’t engage with your colleagues over the course of the working day, unable to move your head, sigh, speak or look at the room you’re sitting in, at best in a booth designed to stop you having any interaction with anyone, at worst in a room by yourself that you can’t leave.

You’re ok with this?

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/education/2019/apr/03/isolation-of-children-at-academies-prompts-legal-action

jellycatspyjamas

They’re not adults. It’s a punishment. The workplace isn’t the comparison. In my workplace I am not being punished. As an adult I can be confined to a cell for 23 hours a day and forced to wear a stripy jumpsuit and have someone search my bodily cavities for drugs. HTH.

this is indicative of a wider issue - an apathy and reluctance to engage with learning

Not always - DD2 has ADD and would lose her head, if it were not screwed on! She and DH (who has ADHD) both probably spend several hours a day, looking for things like keys, mobile phone, etc!

Both are high achievers and obsessive when it comes to what they are interested in, with DH in particular a type A person - but that poster had no conception of the extent of the forgetfulness, disorganisation, inability to focus generally and mess that comes with ADD/ADHD!

This may well sound a draconian reaction but to put the pen thing in context : 5 of my year 9s did not have pens last week for every lesson (4 lessons) . One borrowed a pen and did not return it. By the end of the week I was down two pens, and had one which was all chewed. It is really sad that when I went round uni Open Days this year, I pilfered pens so that I could lend them out and do my job of teaching.

Where do posters on this thread think all these teachers magic up endless supplies of pens from constantly?

"Maybe the school felt the need to make harsher sanctions because parents and student soldiers weren't respecting the rules as they were and previous sanctions were proving ineffective"

And this my friend is how schools escalate from a missing pen to thermo-dynamic nuclear war within a week.

Q: If the previous sanctions were proving ineffective why should increasing the sanction be any more effective?
Q: If a school is a place of learning, why aren't the school leaders taking time to reflect and learn on the outcomes of their own policies and start making decisions based on evidence?
Q: Why is the best school in my area the one where there is no uniform?

My time dealing with this petty bollocks is thankfully over. I was supportive of the school, I did take the phone calls, apply the sanctions at home. It made the sum of jackshit for my child and for their school.

So as an adult you’d be completely happy with your employer mandating that you couldn’t engage with your colleagues over the course of the working day, unable to move your head, sigh, speak or look at the room you’re sitting in, at best in a booth designed to stop you having any interaction with anyone, at worst in a room by yourself that you can’t leave.

I’d also be inclined to ask how long you think an adult is going to last in the workplace who is unable to spend a couple of hours actually working, bring a pen and refrain from theatrical sighing when anyone speaks to them?

Good news on purple pens, though : they are going out of fashion as a feedback thing .

They’re not adults. It’s a punishment. The workplace isn’t the comparison. In my workplace I am not being punished.
Your workplace doesn’t punish you if you don’t have a purple pen? Seriously? How can you possibly be doing your job properly without a purple pen? When as an adult you had it in your power to buy said purple pen.

Oh that’s right, because as adults we don’t need to keep arbitrary rules that have no bearing whatsoever on how well we do our job. And if we did, our employer couldn’t remove us from the rest of our colleagues without a huge kick off.

But let’s isolate our 12 year olds, who have little control over the equipment their parents buy (or are able to buy), and who are developing emotionally, psychologically and cognitively, the most important thing is that we turn out compliant little workbots.

jellycatspyjamas

“Compliant little workbots.”

Again, it’s you. You are actively encouraging conflict with the system trying to help your kids. Well done.

Your workplace doesn’t punish you if you don’t have a purple pen? Seriously? How can you possibly be doing your job properly without a purple pen? When as an adult you had it in your power to buy said purple pen.

I have been in workplaces where I would be disciplined if I did not bring the core equipment and capability to do my job. Purple pens aren’t the point. When your child enters the world of work, they will undoubtedly be required to be “compliant” with certain rules. It might be no phones on the shop floor. It might be no boozing before operating. Who knows? By teaching your child that rules do not apply to them, you are not preparing them for the time when they will.

I’d also be inclined to ask how long you think an adult is going to last in the workplace who is unable to spend a couple of hours actually working

A couple of hours? Children being isolated for a full day (so 6 hours working with no interaction), who “fail” isolation (presumably by looking around the room) and send back into isolation the next day to do it properly. For up to 5 days at a time. So a whole week of working in isolation. Not a couple of hours.

jellycatspyjamas

Yes, a couple of hours. At a time. Presumably they get a break and lunch. The rest of the time they are expected to - shock, horror - focus on their work. Like they should be doing anyway.

As an ex teacher and deputy head, I’d suggest that the children keep a very close eye on their teachers and report them if they come to lessons without a working board pen or if they forget their photocopying.

No prizes for guessing why you’re an “ex”- teacher.

Piggywaspushed (maybe others) has said similar to what I am going to put.

I have pupils that never turn up to lessons with pens, (sometimes with no exercise books), the pens are rarely returned, they are "lost" in lessons, dismantled, chewed, sometimes just destroyed.

I spend a fortune on equipment that the school doesn't supply and by the look of some of the replies neither do the parents.

Where do posters on this thread think all these teachers magic up endless supplies of pens from constantly?

I was starting to wonder that. Who is supplying the pens for the children that can easily lose 3 pens a day? Presumably if your child is losing that many pens you are sending them in with 6 and helping them check how many they still have each night and topping it up from a stash you have at home.

By teaching your child that rules do not apply to them, you are not preparing them for the time when they will.

The rules absolutely apply to my children, again your confusing my attitude to inappropriate punishment with my attitude to education. I happen to think it’s entirely possible to educate children and raise them to be responsible adults able to function in the world of work without routinely isolating or excluding them from education for the most ridiculous of reasons.

It is very interesting reading this thread because my children attend a school where the sanctions are the same for forgotten pens etc and yet it is an outstanding school which is oversubscribed every year. It is surrounded by other schools so not an only choice situation.

Our school provides the child with said purple pen (independent work,) a green pen (challenge extension work) and whiteboard marker. When it runs out you simply exchange it at student services. Or you can buy one from there for about 12p. As the pens are cheap ones we provide our children with their own, ordered in bulk from Amazon.

Not having equipment disrupts lessons, so time is wasted, every day. The sanctions are harsh to force children to engage. Seems to be working well at my sons' school, they are one of the best state schools in the city for Progress 8.

They have a separate building for SEND children or those who just need a bit of TLC so not all children are sent to isolation. The uniform policy is strict and I chose it for its strictness and its amazing pastoral care.

RafaIsTheKingOfClay

I have known pupils that don't have a pen in any lesson. even after taking or being given them in the previous lesson.

So the count can be up to 6 pens a day.

And yes, I do send my children to school dressed and with the equipment they need. But they aren’t adorned with the school logo on every item of clothing, my daughters skirt isn’t knee length and her shoes aren’t laced, my son wears a non logo kit for PE and they have blue and black pens for writing. All of which would “earn” them isolation in some schools and none of which make a blind bit of difference to their capacity for learning.

The rules absolutely apply to my children, again your confusing my attitude to inappropriate punishment with my attitude to education. I happen to think it’s entirely possible to educate children and raise them to be responsible adults able to function in the world of work without routinely isolating or excluding them from education for the most ridiculous of reasons.

That doesn’t make sense. The rules apply except when I decide they don’t? Right.

So let's get this straight . . .

The school have not communicated anything to you about this.

Your DC has come home and told you that the school is introducing a load of draconian punishments.

And you are on here foaming at the mouth because the school are being so unreasonable?

You're not even possibly thinking . . . hmm, maybe my DC is exaggerating, it's probably nothing like that because if it was the school would have definitely emailed parents about it to get their support . . .?

But no of course the explanation MUST be that what your DC said is 100% true and the school are heartless, useless, incompetent blah blah.

(Eg there is probably a place where they will hand out free pens at the start of school, and students without one need to get one at the start of the day. You would be amazed at the amount of lesson time lost with "I ain't got no pen, Miss!" as students genuinely believe this will mean they don't have to do any work. And spare me from likes of the student who spent half the lesson trying to break his pen (it was a well-made one!) and the other half wailing at the top of his voice "My pen's broken!")

I think that what is being confused here is the difference between a child that occasionally forgets/break/lends out spares so doesn't have a pen.
A child with a SEND that makes it difficult to bring in/keep equipment.

And a serial offender that never has a pen, breaks those that are given to them and generally uses the no equipment line to prevent the teaching and learning of others.