AIBU about school imposing new sanctions?

[BumbleBeef30]

Today DC came home and said they had assemblies today in which they were told about new sanctions for issues such as having your shirt untucked or missing equipment, e.g. a purple pen.

I don’t mind it when a school has a sudden outbreak of enforcing uniform issues or ensuring all children have the right equipment using the original sanctions because, no matter how silly I may think it is to give a child a detention at break for a missing pen, those are the rules which were on the home-school agreement and I signed up to it.

I didn’t sign up to these new sanctions, which seem overly harsh and likely to punish only those children whose parents can not afford to replace items which break or go missing unexpectedly.

An occurrence of missing a pen now gets you sent to detention for three lessons; two occurrences get you isolation for three lessons; three occurrences get you sent to isolation for a whole day; and four occurrences earn you a fixed term exclusion. Theoretically a child could go to school on Monday without a pen and be excluded by Wednesday.

Before anyone says, I know pens are cheap and fairly easy to replace, but some people are forced to live hand to mouth at the moment, and the same new sanctions apply if you don’t have exactly the right type of shoes. Whereas before it might be a phone call to parents reminding them that shoes need to be lace-up, now it’s an immediate detention followed by isolation.

What’s more is that the school hasn’t sent home any information to parents, apart from an email containing the letter they give all new Year 7s about the standards they expect. No mention of sanctions at all - just a basic “we want every child to succeed and because of this we expect skirts to be knee length, all students to have the correct equipment, etc”.

AIBU to wonder what the fuck is going on at that school? Can schools just change sanctions whenever they feel like it? And should they be introducing these new, much harsher sanctions without letting parents know about them?

Generally any loaded with a high loss of staff, school of otherwise is indicative of it being a bad place to work. I would doubt most teachers find kids unreachable due to lack of specifically purple pen(I'm pretty sure this isn't a standard necessity in teaching practice) and shirts which are untucked).

I agree. It won’t just be that.

I think that’s been the case for a while though, hercule. I think what’s changed is a willingness to deal with it rather than just accept it.

I think what’s changed is a willingness to deal with it rather than just accept it.

Perhaps also a gap emerging between those who want to deal with it and those who want to adopt a more permissive mode of bringing up young people?

I’m struggling with the idea that any parent would allow their child to be put into “isolation” at school. I’m supportive of school discipline but using isolation to punish kids is totally unacceptable in my view. I’m in Scotland, I don’t know of any school that would isolate a child and am really surprised at how accepting parents are of isolation.

In terms of the rules and new sanctions, I’d be pushing back strongly against the idea they could effectively exclude my child for lack of the right coloured pen.

I’m struggling with the idea that any parent would allow their child to be put into “isolation” at school.

I don’t think it’s up to you. If the student refuses the school can exclude them for that.

I thought they used purple pens because some kids are red/green colour blind and purple is easier for them to pick out. I think red pen is the hardest for those with colour blind to identify as a different colour.

Pupils turning up with the right equipment is standard detention stuff. So yes a purple pen does count. I’m sure if you couldn’t afford one a teacher would lend one out but having the attitude it’s just a pen, i don’t buy into this stupid rule, we’ll your part of the problem. So many parents/kids undermine schools by running their opinions off in front of their kids. Respect the rules.

It sounds like the children at the school are very disruptive and have no respect for teachers hence why the best ones have fucked off for a better life elsewhere. So yes the head is trying to get a handle on the behaviour and it’s a zero tolerance approach.

If things don’t improve the school will fail, end up in special measures nd probably get a strict super head in, and yes they will too ensure kids have pens in class.

I’ve obviously been thinking about this a lot. I think the problem is now that schools are run as businesses, not as schools. Ours is run like the only shop in the village. If you say you are concerned, they say things like “would your DC be happier at another school?” knowing full well that the next closest school is over 14 miles away and public transport takes 1.5 hours to travel there from our town.

They require respect from the pupils, but there’s no impetus to do their best for the pupils in return because they have a captive audience and they know it.

I loved my school. I respected my teachers and I know they did their best for me. The whole structure centred around ensuring pupils achieved as much as they could and if people (pupils or teachers) made mistakes it was expected that you took responsibility, apologised and tried to make it right.

I don’t see this in my DC’s school. I have been on the receiving end of mistakes made by the school and am still waiting for an explanation of what went wrong over a year later. I won’t get it unless I push and push, and frankly I think that it’s become too big an issue to deal with and right now I’d rather teachers were teaching and safeguarding than sifting through old paperwork to work out why something happened. But it’s the ethos that school is never wrong and that pupils always are that concerns me.

My instinctive reaction has always been to support the school, but parents like me are being increasingly concerned about things like these new harsher sanctions. I know a lot of parents don’t value education, but those who do and always will are being alienated. Those of us who give a damn about exam results worry why such a lot of the teachers have left over the past two years and no effort seems to have been made to replace a lot of them (no job adverts on any of the teaching job sites I frequent) so GSCE pupils were being given cover supervisors for over half their lessons some weeks.

Right now it feels like the HT is trying to stop the ship sinking by insisting all the crew wear matching bandanas rather than making sure they all have buckets to bail.

Ours is run like the only shop in the village. If you say you are concerned, they say things like “would your DC be happier at another school?” knowing full well that the next closest school is over 14 miles away and public transport takes 1.5 hours to travel there from our town.

That’s tough apples, though, isn’t it? You don’t have to live there. They are trying to run a school and it sounds like the parents think the school ought to be run as a Spartan-style direct democracy.

think people just don’t value education enough. They see it as a burden, a set of rules and expectations to comply with, rather than a gift.

In fairness, you can be put into solitary confinement (which is what isolation actually is) for having the wrong colour pen, a skirt that isn’t long enough or the wrong kind of shoes. It’s a pretty shit “gift” which comes with so many conditions that literally have no impact on your learning whatsoever. Schools, Ofsted or whoever have done this to education to blame nit kids and parents trying to navigate ridiculous rules and extreme punishments.

jellycatspyjamas

It’s not solitary confinement. Solitary confinement is when you are locked in a cell for days, months or years. It is not when you are asked to sit still and not talk for an afternoon.

I am not saying there aren’t better ways to deal with a lack of a purple pen, but it is your attitude that is causing schools to fail, not isolation.

Those sanctions are draconian. And as you say, will alienate parents who value education and support teachers/ schools more generally.
These academies can do what the heck they like. It is an outrageous disaster of a system. Previously the LEA would ensure schools behaved reasonably and parents would have recourse to the LEA if they wanted to follow something up. Academies are a law unto themselves- bringing in expensive uniforms; closing at lunchtime on Fridays, excessive sanctions for minor infringements... and it is very difficult for parents to have their legitimate concerns properly heard.

Does seem ridiculous but I find all pupils have phones and they are never forgotten but a pen!? What's that eh? Teachers can tell what is genuine and who isn't. I have gone through 50+ pens in 3 weeks because kids haven't got a pen. However it is easier to give them one than to argue as it sets the lesson off on a negative tone.
If that is the rule then they should avoid breaking them. I dont understand the lesson detention sanction and then an isolation sanction.They seem the same to me.
I always make sure I have a stack of pens as we do have pupils who have nothing and I wouldn't want them to get into trouble because their parents are unable to buy pens.

And try telling the kids crawling over Delhi rubbish heaps looking for stuff to sell that a free education until the age of 18 is a “pretty shit gift”.

Does seem ridiculous but I find all pupils have phones and they are never forgotten but a pen!?

Yep. If you told them they had to remember a purple pen every day and at the end of the week you’d give them £50 they’d remember it.

*I’m struggling with the idea that any parent would allow their child to be put into “isolation” at school.

I don’t think it’s up to you. If the student refuses the school can exclude them for that*

I wouldn’t expect my child to refuse, I’d be refusing for them and would be wanting the school to explain how they are meeting their statutory duty to educate my child while my child is in solitary confinement. I’d also want a clear explanation of how isolating children is a proportionate punishment for not having a purple pen. I can’t believe parents are ok with their children being isolated in school.

I’d be refusing for them and would be wanting the school to explain how they are meeting their statutory duty to educate my child while my child is in solitary confinement. I’d also want a clear explanation of how isolating children is a proportionate punishment for not having a purple pen. I can’t believe parents are ok with their children being isolated in school.

They would be refusing. Because you told them to. And you would be responsible for the temporary exclusion that followed.

It’s you.

Has the school just become an academy or changed academies?

You say you’re awaiting responses about issues, which happened a year ago . Dd isn’t in secondary yet. My first thought would be to take this inequality to the governors. Discuss the ridiculousness of the policy when it is making some (what I imagine to be) fundamental errors. Demand that the school either addresses your issue(s). Or allows everyone to make mistakes. Make yourself a bloody nuisance to the head.

I’d be refusing for them and would be wanting the school to explain how they are meeting their statutory duty to educate my child while my child is in solitary confinement
Because a silent study room is totally solitary confinement.

I guess we better tell all those university libraries with silent study areas and study desks with dividers that nobody can possibly learn. Maybe we should rewrite the definition of solitary confinement as well to mean a 'a room with other people in it'.

Sounds ridiculous..id turn up to class in high school stoned, with short skirt make up and jewelley with nothing but a pen and still left with 8 A's and an A* (obviously not saying the kids should do exactly that) im pretty sure most stuff was provided. I went to a pretty poor school. Detentions were for bunking or smoking etc. It was only 2000to 2005 so its changed a bit if you can get detention for a missing pen!

Fucket, the children are no more disruptive than in any other school I’ve visited. I’ve been to a lot of schools as part of my job.

Tbh the staff who are there are great and I believe 95% of them do their best to educate and support the kids. It’s the changed ethos of the school since the HT started 2-3 years ago that disturbs me. Harsher sanctions, a general stonewalling attitude, communication suddenly becoming very much on a need-to-know basis.

With the old HT you could call or email if there was a problem/question and someone would get back to you. Now communication only comes from the school when it wants something from you. I believe that to support some children home-school communication needs to go both ways.

Surfskatefamily

Slow clap. You are very clever. Only problem would be if all the kids copied what what you did, wouldn’t it? I suspect the well-behaved kids who had their lesson time wasted while the teacher found you a pen thought you were very annoying indeed.

I am not saying there aren’t better ways to deal with a lack of a purple pen, but it is your attitude that is causing schools to fail, not isolation.

You have absolutely no idea about my attitude towards education - you only know what I think about isolation. Nothing wrong with sitting still and not talking, but reports of children not being allowed to look left or right, to engage in any way with another young person for up to five days is appalling.

Free education is absolutely a gift, it’s not free though if you need exactly the right equipment to be able to access it (a purple pen -v- a pen, a specific skirt -v- a skirt, a logo PE kit -v- shorts and t-shirt). And it’s not a gift to spend a week at a time on my own without actively engaging in lessons for not having one of the above.

LolaSmiles, as far as I know university library corrals don’t punish you for leaning back in your chair.

You have absolutely no idea about my attitude towards education - you only know what I think about isolation. Nothing wrong with sitting still and not talking, but reports of children not being allowed to look left or right, to engage in any way with another young person for up to five days is appalling.

I do. You think you make the rules.

And I think you are forgetting that your children do not live at school. They can engage with other young people at home, can’t they?