AIBU about school imposing new sanctions?

[BumbleBeef30]

Today DC came home and said they had assemblies today in which they were told about new sanctions for issues such as having your shirt untucked or missing equipment, e.g. a purple pen.

I don’t mind it when a school has a sudden outbreak of enforcing uniform issues or ensuring all children have the right equipment using the original sanctions because, no matter how silly I may think it is to give a child a detention at break for a missing pen, those are the rules which were on the home-school agreement and I signed up to it.

I didn’t sign up to these new sanctions, which seem overly harsh and likely to punish only those children whose parents can not afford to replace items which break or go missing unexpectedly.

An occurrence of missing a pen now gets you sent to detention for three lessons; two occurrences get you isolation for three lessons; three occurrences get you sent to isolation for a whole day; and four occurrences earn you a fixed term exclusion. Theoretically a child could go to school on Monday without a pen and be excluded by Wednesday.

Before anyone says, I know pens are cheap and fairly easy to replace, but some people are forced to live hand to mouth at the moment, and the same new sanctions apply if you don’t have exactly the right type of shoes. Whereas before it might be a phone call to parents reminding them that shoes need to be lace-up, now it’s an immediate detention followed by isolation.

What’s more is that the school hasn’t sent home any information to parents, apart from an email containing the letter they give all new Year 7s about the standards they expect. No mention of sanctions at all - just a basic “we want every child to succeed and because of this we expect skirts to be knee length, all students to have the correct equipment, etc”.

AIBU to wonder what the fuck is going on at that school? Can schools just change sanctions whenever they feel like it? And should they be introducing these new, much harsher sanctions without letting parents know about them?

Perfectly reasonable to be cynical about purple pens, Lola. It was one of the big ofsted myths.

Personally, prefer editing/correcting to be done in a different colour but I’m not sure it matters which colour. Probably easiest to insist on writing in blue and editing in black or vice versa.

Using a colour that is not widely available is just a power play.

Nope. Just a bizarre line of logic and thinking. Schools often allow children to write in either black or blue. There was a bit of a thing about not marking in red so in many schools teachers marked in green. So those colours are out.

And it begins with P so it was just a simple step for someone to come up with the pink polishing pen and the purple pen of progress. And then ofsted mentioned it somewhere and everyone started doing it.

Rafals, I was wrong about that then. I’m not sure if that is better or worse! My 8 year old wouldn’t respond to some cutesy ‘purple pen of progress’ type sentence, let alone anyone much older.

Honestly I taught in a school that had a similar system , it was fantastic. Picking up on the small misdemeanors means that bigger stuff rarely happens.

I'm now in a school with less strict rules and behaviour is sadly deteriorating.
You state that you didn't sign up for this system. It's not parents who decide , its head teachers

I wouldn't object having seen both sides of the fence

“You state that you didn't sign up for this system. It's not parents who decide , its head teachers ”

Head Teachers don’t have unlimited power in schools. They are required to act within the law and to fulfill their statutory obligations to provide children with an education.

They are not allowed to mistreat children in their care. Using “isolation” as punishment and denying children breaks for minor transgressions is mistreatment.

Any teacher tries that shit with my kids, and they will wish they had never bothered.

Any teacher tries that shit with my kids, and they will wish they had never bothered.

Oops !

'Any teacher tries that shit with my kids, and they will wish they had never bothered.'

What exactly do you mean Streetwise ? Is that a threat Are you saying that your children should not be punished if they break the rules??? if you don't like that sanction, which would you prefer ? Any ideas? Or do you think teachers shouldn't be allowed any power to punish bad behaviour? Your post is ridiculous

It means I will kick off and be such a pain in the arse they will wish they had never bothered.

There are plenty of ways to manage behaviour in schools, aren’t there? Given that most schools don’t do what is being talked about here.

If you feel You have a right to 'kickoff' I would be interested to hear your ideas re disciplining your children

It means I will kick off and be such a pain in the arse they will wish they had never bothered

Arf. As if schools haven’t got the “been there, done that” for dealing with batshit parents.

Loving that you think you’re all special

@JacquesHammer I think the problem is they also think their offspring are rather special and therein lies the problem

We are all special. 😎

Ahh bless you ...In your head anyway

To be fair uniform should be worn properly and children punished if not.

Incidentally a boy last week told me to fuck off when I told him to fasten his top button. He is in yr .

JacquesHammer
And the best schools respond well to batshit parents.
Ok, you may not like that rule but the bottom line is your child has refused to follow instructions, then failed to attend detentions because you've told them not to and now they are in isolation and are in their 3rd day because in the previous 2 days they have been arguing with staff about having to work in a silent classroom whilst claiming their parents are going yo sue usFailure to complete isolation risks parental meeting with senior leaders and a potential exclusion. We didn't want it to get to this stage but unfortunately your child's actions have turned what would have been a perfectly reasonable request into a substantial issue of repeated defiance. We would like them to be in lessons learning unfortunately, if they wish to be part of this then they have to accept the rules apply to them just like any other child. The real question is we don't accept defiance in our school and as a parent do you want your child to be in this school long term because they are going down a pathway that we think will hinder their education?

Yes, that’s a good way for a school to engage with a parent asserting their childrens’ rights in law.

The burden of the law is on schools to educate. They work for the taxpayer, not the other way round. And rightly, as vulnerable people, children have protections.

Schools can’t make up rules as the go along without consensus and even when that consensus exists it must be applied lawfully and the term “reasonable” is very important in law.

Depriving children of breaks for minor transgression or using isolation as a punitive measure is rarely reasonable, nor does it facilitate learning.

StreetwiseHercules
By the time a parent is being totally unreasonable and has refused to be reasonable along the whole process then it is an appropriate line to take.

Schools don't start there. They do lots to work with parents, but the sorts of parents who decide they decide the school rules and are argumentative, confrontational, who talk about storming into schools, going to kick off if their child is sanctioned so that school won't bother (aka try to threaten and bully staff) aren't reasonable people. There is a limit on how far you'll get anywhere with unreasonable people in any area of life.

Schools end up at the point of 'potential exclusion for persistent defiance' with the minority of parents who think school rules at a smorgasbord of options they can choose from (namely the sort of parents who think they decide how school rules are implemented and that their child has some special exemption). It's the parents actions that lead to that situation, not the schools. If they stopped kicking off over a break detention for missing homework and their child being sent out for talking then their child wouldn't end up thinking they can behave as they like.

“are argumentative, confrontational, who talk about storming into schools, going to kick off if their child is sanctioned so that school ”

But that behaviour is justified if children are being denied breaks and given punitive exclusions for minor things.

THAT’S how this discussion is framed from the opening post.

Schools can’t just decide to treat children unreasonably because the feel like making up new rules on a whim, and I won’t tolerate it if they do this with my kids.

What’s wrong with that?

If they stopped kicking off over a break detention for missing homework and their child being sent out for talking then their child wouldn't end up thinking they can behave as they like.

This! Excellent post Lola

Except the bigger sanctions only happen if an issue happens more than once. So logic says don't break simple rules more than once.

The OP has said they accept break detentions over uniform etc because they are reasonable and accept that even if they wouldn't choose the rules, schools have them.
Then if a parent has an issue or wishes to challenge any changes they can raise it with the school in a polite and reasonable manner through appropriate channels (something I totally support parents to do). However the sort of people who advocate storming into schools, I'll kick off and try to bully and intimidate staff, tell my child to ignore sanctions are not reasonable people with any interest in sensible adult discussion.

Reasonable parents challenge and discuss in a reasonable way and typically get reasonable discussion, resolution and clarity (even if they may not agree with all of it).
Unreasonable parents spend their time getting fuming, kicking off, telling their children they can ignore rules, and then seem to find it odd when schools take a dim view of totally ridiculous behaviour.

schoolrules
It's really true.
I'm all for parents challenging schools and raising concerns or objections but act like adults about it and don't whine that your child was sanctioned for choosing not to follow the simplest instructions.

But in this case parents have been into school and raised issues in a sensible manner. Other parents have telephoned. Plenty have emailed (mostly to clarify exactly which child has behaved badly as the email does not tell you ). They have mostly had any concerns dismissed and essentially told to go away. They have been told the governors are in support of the school and this is an academy so. I local authority control. What exactly would you suggest then?

no local control.

Sorry - 'bold type' fail

“But in this case parents have been into school and raised issues in a sensible manner. Other parents have telephoned. Plenty have emailed (mostly to clarify exactly which child has behaved badly as the email does not tell you hmm). They have mostly had any concerns dismissed and essentially told to go away. They have been told the governors are in support of the school and this is an academy so. I local authority control. What exactly would you suggest then?”

Quite. Kicking off is entirely appropriate in these circumstances.