... to not tell my militantly vegan friend she ate fish sauce?

[Snuffalo]

I am a relaxed vegan, as are one of my kids, the other kid and my partner are mostly vegetarian. Basically what that means for me is that I would never spend my own money on animal products, and I wouldn't use them in my own cooking, but if someone else prepares food for me or I'm a guest in someone's home I'll eat what's put in front of me, for the most part - I won't have a sausage or a burger at your barbecue, but I'll eat the pasta salad even if has cheese in it, and I'll have some of your birthday cake even if it's made with eggs.

Anyway, my friend Alice- who is a militant, rather than a relaxed, vegan

• was over and I heated up what I confidently thought to be vegan sweet potato and black bean chilli that my partner had made earlier in the week. I know the recipe backwards and forwards because one of us makes it at least once a month with zero animal products so I had no reason to suspect otherwise. I must say it was especially delicious this time - because, as it turns out, my partner added some fish sauce because he'd read somewhere that it's good in chilli. I didn't find out until today and now I'm wondering if I should tell Alice? I can't decide if, in her shoes, I would want to know or not. Would you?

@TatianaLarina They would choose the vegan option obviously - why is that so hard?
And if they came to dinner, cook vegan for them.

(if however, you slip up and put a bit of butter in it, they won't refuse to eat it, because they're relaxed, and will appreciate the effort you went to.
Do you know what relaxed means, in the context of being a very strict vegan? It means they're not very strict.

@VerbenaGirl Yes! I've learnt to put it in nearer the end of cooking, rather than fry it up with the onions

I wouldn't as it will just upset her and it sounds like it was a genuine mistake on your part. I'm vegetarian and would rather the blissful ignorance than feeling disgusted at myself for eating meat.

I’m not the one making things hard. The poster I was replying to demanded OP use “I try not to eat a lot of animal products” as her descriptor rather than vegan.

The poster I was replying to demanded OP use “I try not to eat a lot of animal products” as her descriptor rather than vegan.

Oh I demanded did I

The OP can ask for a vegan option (accurate/clear because it contains no animal products).

Describing herself as vegan on the other hand is is not accurate. I don’t think I need to go into why again.

I don’t see anything difficult or controversial
about the distinction between the two.

@laurieMarlow OP didn't describe herself as a vegan

People are either vegan or not, vegetarian or not.

Some people (me included) eat a low meat diet and lots of vegetarian food. We aren't relaxed vegetarians. We have an omnivore diet and it's nothing exciting (unless you're a hipster in which case I believe the new term to gain unique points is flexitarian give me strength)

I think people have rightly found the idea of a relaxed vegan who sometimes eat a cheese funny. It's a bit like someone I went to school with was vegetarian except for roast dinner.

Anyone can choose to consume less animal products and that's great, they can order vegan food and that's great, but let's not start rewriting the English language even more so any category becomes 'whoever wishes to identify into this category'.

Like I said, I know some self-righteous vegans, so it pains me to stand up for them, but I'm surprised by the number of posters who think you can consume milk and eggs and still describe yourself as a vegan. Veganism is binary - you either are one or you aren't. The OP is a vegetarian, not a vegan. There's nothing wrong with that.

It's like someone saying, "I'm in a monogamous relationship, but I'm pretty relaxed about it. 99% of the sex I have is with my partner, but if someone particularly attractive wants to sleep with me, I won't turn them down. I'm not a militant monogamist, but I only cheat about three times a year."

Would it be elitist and judgemental to tell that person that their relationship isn't monogamous at all? Of course not. It would just be the truth.

I blame the cult of identity. We're moving ever closer to a society where people announce "I am X" and no one is allowed to point out that they're actually Y.

I find it easier to tell people that I am plant-based. I basically follow a vegan diet, but I do eat eggs. As this thread shows, many people have a staunch idea of what veganism entails, but the moment you say you are a vegetarian, you inevitably get served something with cheese. And probably pasta. Ugh.

I think more and more people are increasing their plant based repertoire for food, and I can only encourage this. Don't get bogged down in other people's desires to apply labels.

And for goodness sake, don't tell your friend. It will just cause unnecessary anger/hurt. Vegan fish sauce is easy enough to make. But don't do it again.

Valanice1989
Bravo. Well said.

I love the idea of being a monogomous, except occasions where I sleep with other people.

You're right on the identity thing. There seems to be a need for people to self-identify as whatever term they think makes them look cool and different or gives them a talking point to make conversation about them. The reality is most people lead entirely normal and mundane lives.

I wouldn't tell her- and OP you are not a vegan.

So in other words Laurie, contrary to what you said on the pp, you do need a ‘descriptor’ beyond ‘I try not to eat a lot of animal products’.

What does “plant based” mean? i’m too old fashioned and unhip to know!

I eat a plant based diet, too, but I don't describe myself as vegan- or even vegetarian.
I am an omnivore.

I think it's pretty well impossible to be 100% vegan, it is something to strive towards, but not possible to cut out the use of dead animals in your life completely.

If you travel by bus or use a device to post here you are using dead animals to support your activities.

I do wish people would actually read the OPs posts before making comment because it makes them look silly.

For about the umpteenth time...the OP used the words ‘militant vegan’ because thats how the friend describes herself.

What a wasted opportunity this thread was for veganism.

Instead of encouraging and supporting others to take even small steps towards consuming less animal products/reducing animal suffering/exploitation the vast majority of vegans on here have simply been nasty to others for daring to use ‘their’ word in a way they don’t approve of.

They’ve called people twats, lazy, idiots etc etc

And then they wonder why vegans have the reputation they do. 🙄

Dorsetdays
The friend may well describe themselves as a militant vegan, but the OP describes herself as a 'relaxed vegan' as in 'I'm vegan except for all these times that I'm willing to eat animal products'. So they aren't vegan. In fact the fact real vegans have to clarify they are militant vegans (Or just vegans to most people) is because of people who say they are vegans but aren't.

It's the way with dietary requirements. There's a definition of vegan, vegetarian, pescatarian, halal, kosher, coeliacs etc. People know what they mean and when others start saying 'I'm vegan but I'll have milk and eggs and sometimes cheese but it's easier to rewrite language' it makes it more difficult for people who actually have dietary requirements.
Or you get situations where people get told someone is vegan and make catering changes only to see the vegan tuck into non-vegan birthday cake later because the cake doesn't count.

What a wrong with a perfectly correct 'in vegetarian but try to avoid animal products as much as possible'?

What is wrong with "What a wrong with I try to avoid animal products as much as possible'?

Without any labels?

I have never felt the need to make a public proclamation.

So in other words Laurie, contrary to what you said on the pp, you do need a ‘descriptor’ beyond ‘I try not to eat a lot of animal products’

Not when describing yourself no.

Perfectly accurate to describe a meal as vegan.

Honestly, this isn’t difficult.

Lola. Seriously, why do you care how someone chooses to describe their diet/lifestyle? Why do you feel it’s your right to tell others how they are allowed to define that?

Someone using their own descriptor does not make it more likely that a ‘strict’ vegan will immediately be tricked into consuming animal products, that’s just an excuse. Be responsible for what you put into your own body and remember that veganism is about more than just diet, it’s a lifestyle so ‘relaxed vegan’ doesn’t make it more likely that you’ll wear leather shoes by accident does it.

The OP has been very clear that they don’t announce this to all and sundry, they’ve simply used it on this thread as a way of clarifying their position.

You’re also wrong if you think there is ONE definition of all those terms, there isn’t.

Did you read the link I posted earlier which explains far more clearly and eloquently then I can why it really doesn’t matter and what is actually important in this issue;

www.vegan.com/what/

Honestly, this isn’t difficult.

It shouldn’t be. You’re making it a lot harder than it needs to be.

I’ve googled plant based diet now. I can’t imagine circumstances where you would have to tell anyone- unless it was just in general conversation. If you were going for dinner surely you’d just eat whatever was offered.

You’re making it a lot harder than it needs to be.

Hardly.

The OP isn’t vegan. However she can have the vegan option if she’d like. Straightforward concept.

Laurie. I’m sure the OP is very grateful that you’ve clarified what she’s allowed to do. 😂

Lola. Seriously, why do you care how someone chooses to describe their diet/lifestyle? Why do you feel it’s your right to tell others how they are allowed to define that?
Because words have meanings and I've not drank the kool aid and joined the world where a word means whatever you want if you're creating a label for yourself.

I eat a largely vegetarian diet and will often request the vegetarian option at functions if there is a choice. I don't eat much meat. But I don't go around telling people I'm a vegetarian because I'm not going to rewrite language around my personal preferences.

And some words have different meanings and differing definitions depending on where you look, where you live, what your philosophies are etc. veganism being one of them.

To quote the link, if you can’t work out what 80% vegan means you have bigger problems...