To wonder why people have children when they clearly put their career first, by having a 24hr maternity nurse from day one and a full-time nanny from 3 months?

[gogetter]

Call me old fashioned but why bother when you are going to see your child for maybe an hour a day on weekdays?
It's not financially needed for mum to return to work (far from) so why leave your teeny weeny baby with a nanny during the most amazing time of their lifes?

A bit strange I fear!

i don't actually think the OP represents the majority of situations facing working parents, in as much as they have to work, for financial and professional reasons.

I daresay that little tarquin and tarquinella, the DCs of children who can afford mat nurses so young, as it is not financially needed for that particular mother to return to work, will be too busy playing with their ponies/mercedes toy car (preparing for later life)/etc etc to worry about whether mummy works or otherwise. I imagine they will be happy enough. In the real world, most mums work to pay the bills.

"why plan to be pregnant at a time in yr life when you are in a job that has no flexibility?"

You've already had a few good answers to this one. I'd add that if you wait to be in a senior enough role to have flexibility (that's if you can guarantee that the two would go together anyway) you may have postponed having children just a little bit too late. What if you discover then that you have problems conceiving? Cue an MN thread "my rich friend has waited far too long. Rubbing my hands with glee, she's now having problems conceiving. Serves her right."

Also, bear in mind that not all pregnancies are planned. Hard to believe, even working women make mistakes. Would you force an abortion on them? Or would you force them to take out all the maternity leave? Do you know the ideal length of time or does it change with the govt policy at the time.

I wouldn't have made the choices your friend made. For example, I'd have ditched you as a friend long ago

"We are all entitled to look for justifications for our choices, if it makes us feel better." One of my friends started her maternity leave by pondering whether she wants to go back to work at all or not. She had v good reasons not to. Then her DH was made redundant and she had to go back to work, sooner than intended and F/T too. Oh, it was fabulous. Then he got a job and she could cut her hours. Best thing to do was to be P/T. Then they thought of emigrating, she wouldn't work, best thing for her DC anyway. You get the picture. We all justify our choices and think they're the best.

christina play nicely

The op, i don't think has said what her situation is re children, childcare, i pressume she is a SAHM??

I love my children and spent the first six years of my first child's life (only two of the third's) pretty much at home, but I'd have 24 childcare in a flash if money were no object. (I'm thinking a house elf would be good, plus a nanny elf) The freedom to do the smallest tasks (go to the loo eg) without hangers-on would be blooming brilliant.

YABU to feel pissed off about it, imo. You are allowed to feel sad for said children if they are brought up by a selection of uninterested staff, or if their childcare arrangements are changed so often that they unable to form proper attachments, or if their parents are so unable to communicate with their kids that they basically have zero input into their lives, wrecking their psyche and self-esteem, but in my experience very few people do not love and want the best for their children. There are all kinds of families around, and if for some people having a stable third person to meet the child's basic needs is the solution, then good luck to them.

I do however believe that young children absolutely need to be able to form very close bonds with at least one person in their life, and therefore do not feel that l2 hour a day nursery care (with very changing staff) is especially appropriate for very young children (below the age of 3-3.5 imo). it may suit the parents better, but it is to my mind a recipe for emotional detachment and problems later if the parents (and indeed, nobody else) have extremely limited input into their children's lives.

I think women often stay home because they don't want to leave small babies and, unless the husband is fabulously high earning, the domestic chores then become her responsibility. They're the price the stay at home mother in a an average income family pays in order to be with the children. What makes my head spin round is when clever women start banging on about homemaking and household management as if it wasn't just awful work that you delegate or offload as soon as you can afford to.

But most don't have 12 hours a day nursery care. I liked the fact ours were at home with a daily nanny who stayed with us for 10 years plus had a lot of contact with both parents. They definitely need to attach to some extent to someone. You just have to look at abanoned babies in Romanian orphanages to see the effects of that. If your needs aren't met and your cries ignored you don't do too well.

But what I odn't like is this sort of sack cloth and ashes mother martyrdom which is along the lines of thou must suffer in the home even if you could pay for help because only when you're metaphorically beating and it hurts you are this madonna paragaon of " good mother".

Instead earn what you can, have fun, hire the help you like for the bits of the jobs you both don't want to do and it's much easier. I only have to contrast when I was 22 - 26 (3 children under 4 working full time virtually no spare money and certainly not a nanny) with 36, twins, more money, help. It was much easier and the time I had could be to the children, not cleaning at the same time.

Some women stay at home because they can't afford to work because childcare costs are prohibitive. Other women go to work because they can't afford not to work. These are negative choices.

Then there are more positive motivations. I must work because I have trained for a billion years and passed a gazillion exams and it has taken AGES and I LOVE my job and I want to carry on doing it. Or I LOVE my children and NO-ONE is capable of looking after them like I do and I WANT to stay at home with them.

There's mixtures of all of that in all of us - we should all respect one another's choices - shouldn't we?

blueshoes - that's my point - you delegate to an au pair (husband should get an assistant). No one can do it all on their own, even if it is within their job spec.

Or rather, YOU get an assistant, because it is within your job spec - hence you hire and oversee.

Issy - re sw being just a phase yes I know you're right but other people have phases like "My DS has started wearing my knickers on his head, is it just a phase". Am bored with taking holiday to see SW though to be fair she does try to schedule for a Friday when I'm off.

This too shall pass.

PP - "well kew, a nanny couldnt possibly a poor parenting choice could it!? " of course it could. And a piss-poor parent wouldn't care if they have a dreadful nanny but invariably I find working parents will ensure they have a kind of childcare which will work for their child to the best of their ability. Staying at home with your baby when it is driving you around the bend and parking it in front of the TV all day to give you a break is also a poor parenting choice. My point, which you seemed to miss, is that I reserve my judgment for people who don't do their best for their children and really the only judge of that is how happy and secure their children are.

Christinatheastonishing - the referral made below was a rude and personal attack.
I didn't think that was what MN was about but more about being able to voice yr opinion and have a passionate debate without being blatantly catty.

V.upset at that one.

What's wrong, gogetter? I said I wouldn't have kept you as a friend. With friends like you who needs enemies?

have only read the first few posts but i find until babies can walk they are quite dull and frustrating. i went back to work at 3 months at first part time but then i got so frustrated staying at home and actually enjoyed sending him off with my mum while i went to work i now do almost full time hours (33 hours)

the time i do spend with him is much better and we do much more quality things now cos i have less time with him and it is precious. before we'd just sit around doing nothing cos i had all day every day with him.

i can see me wanting to go part time again though in a few months when he gets to that toddler age cos i love that.

Gogetter, that is really rich considering the number of offensive things you have said on this thread.

girls girls girls - play nicely and remember the sisterhood All those bras were burnt in vain.

Shouldn't that be 'women, women, women'?

gogetter, I would urge you to tell your friend all the things you have said on this thread. Then come back and reprt to us if she is still your friend. Afterall, you certainly do not mince your words.

I recognise that Mumsnet is a place to debate freely but posts like this really get me down. I felt that as a mum as well as being blessed with this amazing experience I would perhaps have more empathy for other mums and understand that hopefully we make the best decisions based on our siutation. I totally respect those who decide to give up work it's an admirable and wonderful choice, but as a self employed woman, I choose not to give up the security I'm trying to build for my family before my daughter was born. It's not easy leaving her for 3 days a week at childcare, but seeing her face light up at the new experiences and variety she gets those days makes it a little easier. It's also true that some women take to it easier than others so why not get in the help (if you are fortunate to do so) of someone who will enrich your child's life. Who knows what the future will bring, whether I made the right choice or whether anyone here on this thread has made the right choice but i tell you one thing, guilt is the one thing that will destroy your time with little one and its sad to see other mums on here try to heap even more of it on others. Come on ladies, support not judge!

Here here ljhooray. Exactly in the same boat as you. Reassuring to read your post as i have not had my DC yet (due Dec) and i have made exactly the same choice as you.
Gogetter, i do not judge other mums. The worst i may do is think internally- i wouldn't do it like that aren't you making a rod for your own back?- but i would never voice this as it is up to each individual what is right for them. All children are different, (in addition to parents) and they are much more likely to respond to their own parents choices than to mine. There is nature as well as nurture after all

I agree lj.

I always think that the debates on here about this issue are so black and white, I don't recognise the issues. The amount of mums who have a newborn, go back to work full time the next day, have a maternity nurse who DEALS with the child all night and a nanny all day, are so tiny that it's just not realistic to use it as part of a debate.

The majority of us strike a balance between work and children, because we have to and want to. And most people strike ths balance with an eye to the needs of the child as well as the other, material needs or the needs of the parent to have another life.

I would and do judge people if I felt they had a child then made ALL their decisions with no regard to the needs of the child. But I've never met anyone like that.

I agree we need to support each other.

well, I should add that I've never met anyone outside the social services system who did not take account of their child's needs.

I may not mince my words but I have not posted anything that is directly slagging off another poster.
I'm sorry if my opinions cause offence, that was not intentional.

They don't cause offence. I just think your views are completely wrong. I'm glad you started the thread. It's interesting.

I hope all mumsnetters now know it's better if they work in fulfilling careers and are hiring those nannies today...