To wonder why people have children when they clearly put their career first, by having a 24hr maternity nurse from day one and a full-time nanny from 3 months?

[gogetter]

Call me old fashioned but why bother when you are going to see your child for maybe an hour a day on weekdays?
It's not financially needed for mum to return to work (far from) so why leave your teeny weeny baby with a nanny during the most amazing time of their lifes?

A bit strange I fear!

to be fair I don't think gogetters posts have been particularly offensive. Judgemental yes and naive to think that picking on one rather extreme example of working parents wasn;t going to result in lots of working parents on here defending their choice. I think she has no understanding of women who go back to work full time before their maternity leave entitlement runs out and does sound like she comes from my mother generation rather than mine. Having said that most of the comments I have found more offensive come from her acolytes rather than her personally.

LittleLapin - nice pun.

Fair play I think other posters views are cackhanded - but that's the spirit of a good debate. This post has been very popular and most of the time spirited yet amicable, its just in the last day one poster offended me, but i shan't lose sleep.......

Lol Xenia - have you seen the weather today? Who wants to go back into a dusty drab office on a day like today? I'll give it a miss thanks.

Gogetter - I don't think you have been offensive either. Some been plain unkind but you are entitled to your opinion and so is everybody else. What is a pain is the people who are being dictatoral and saying that their way is best. Each to their own. I can justify my decision to those who matter to me and to myself and that is all that matters.

Gogetter - 'Some people..' I meant to say - my fingers aren't working today.

I wish we could stop this endless debate where people feel they have to justify the parenting choices that they have made. These discussions just serve to reinforce the guilt I constantly feel about the choices I have made whilst not changing anyone's opinon or adding to the sum total of knowledge on the subject.

I work part-time. I do this for both financial and personal reasons. I am not sure that it is necessarily the best thing for my dcs but was the only thing for me. I am sure we could survive on less money (although I earn multiples of what dh does even part-time) and I am not sure how lovely and happy and secure my children are. Because I work part-time to see as much of my children as possible, I am also not sure that I do a particulary good job at work and I feel guilty about that too.

I envy many of you the certainty you have in relation to the choices you have made. I wish I felt so sure. However, I am sure that judgemental attitudes from other parents on all sides of the debate do not help those like me but just add to the pressure to do the illusory "right thing".

ok do not have the time to read the whole thread.

would like to say again:

Xenia well done for alienating the entire population of SAHM's in the UK!!

I am a SAHM, i want to spend the first 5 years of my childrens lives with them. If i went to work we would be financially worse off than we are now, after paying for childcare etc.

this does not make me inferior/subserviant to my husband. He knows he wouldn't last 5 minutes looking after the kids on his own all day, and respects me for my patience/multi-tasking/peace-keeping/cooking/cleaning etc etc etc skills.

this does not mean when my kids get bigger i won't be going to work, as i full well intend to, but i feel that it is important for me to have a strong bond with my children while they are small.

OTOH i respect working mothers very much, i personally would hate to leave my baby all day, but if i had to financially do it then i would, as everyone would!

xenia just lets owrking mothers down, by stating her stupidly black and white, simplistic views!

whoah this is a ridiculously long thread.
why do some people get so wound up over the decisions other people make regarding their lives when it affects no one but the people involved?

its a (ridiculously) long thread because one way or another it affects every parent on mumsnet. Its called a discussion

Actually I did think that gogetter's posts were a bit offensive. Not personally abusive as such just offensive in their narrow-mindedness.

I don't mind people staying at home - that's fine if it works for them and they can afford to do it without irretrievably damaging their careers - more power to their collective elbows.

What I found offensive was being judged for going back to work - which was not really even a matter of choice. Odder still was the idea that arranging childcare in advance was somehow to be criticised.

theman I think it's a valid point for debate in this country; because if the accepted norm was for all parents to work full time from DAY ONE, that may well have an effect on a whole generation of children. Because not everyone is Xenia with lovely, long-staying nannies in a lovely big house, most people would have to use other forms of childcare which may be far from ideal for a baby.

That's why it may affect other people and why some people get so heated I think. Because our actions aren't taken in isolation but as part of society and each affects the other. So it's not a case of people making these choices in splendid isolation.

However MY view as I've said is that for most of us it's not black and white, it's a balance with different solutions to different times in the family's life.

I showed DH this thread a couple of days ago, in order to give him some insight about the stresses of being a WOHM.

His response (after reading about 15 posts and then giving up) - "what? why are you all beating yourselves up about this? How do you have time to think about all this stuff? No wonder there is a glass ceiling...."

Don't have a particular comment to make on that, but I do wish I could stop thinking about the issues more!

I've tried to keep off this thread, because everyone has the right to their own approaches to parenting and everyone entitled to their own opinions. End of. However... a week on I can't resist joining in. I haven't read through all the posts, so am no doubt repeating stuff already said. I wonder if Gogetter is one of the smug yummy mummies from our school, who quite happily slags off people who work - when their DHs earn so much money that they can afford to be SAHMs, still live in 1/2 million pound houses, go abroad every school holiday, shop in designer places, never knowing what it's like to be short of money.Somehow it's ok for their DHs not to be involved in bringing up the kids. But not ok for women to follow their careers. I happen to have some sympathy with Gogetter's opinion, by the way. I've chosen to compromise my career and therefore my lifestyle to spend more time with my DCs. Does it make me right? Not according to my colleagues, who can't understand why I wouldn't stay focused on the career ladder. And not according to my SAHM friends who can't believe I'd leave my little darlings 3 days a week, let alone go away overnight sometimes. At the end of the day, Gogetter, if your friend's approach affects her children longer term, she'll pay the biggest price of all. At that point, you can sit back and smugly say "I told you so". (Assuming you still have perfect home/marriage/children/life yourself, of course.)

Sleepless - well said. I have said exactly the same thing myself although not in one post and nowhere near as succinctly.

It is not appropriate for everybody to go back to work either for financial reasons or a myriad of other reasons. It is perfectly acceptable to go back to work if you want to or you need to. It isn't acceptable to criticise others for what they do.

Xenia - you do the cause of working women no good at all. If it is really work F/T or be damned then I'll give it a miss. As I have said it isn't black and white - what about voluntary workers and students or indeed those with children with special needs or women who have other caring roles, for ageing parents for example. There is only so much you can do in a day and maybe paid is not possible.

I'm off to the park for a bit of sunshine and a bit of fun with boys.

I never understand it when the woman earns much much more as someone said below and they choose to work part time and the man who earns a pittance is in full time work. Seems a weird way round. LIke you want to burn pound notes or something.

I do get it Xenia. It's about balancing individual needs and wants within the marriage. If the mother earns a multiple of what her husband earns, as you did and I do now, it makes financial sense for the woman to work full time and if anyone takes time at home it should be the husband. But this attitude takes no account of the emotional need to be with your children (some would also argue the children's emotional need to be with their mother) which sort of transcends financial common sense.

Gosh Xenia I think to spell it out that to some parents, IF they are lucky enough to choose, being with their child and giving the child the ADVANTAGES that provides, is more important than pound notes!

Pound notes is important for children too! Though not at the cost of having a set-up that makes parents and children unhappy.

I know it is noble to say children just need love (particularly mother's) and a secure home to thrive. But as they get older, they begin to appreciate the value of money and the advantages that brings. I am not referring to designer labels and flash cars but, say, to go on a ski-trip with their friends, to finance a gap-year, buy a laptop, pay for Uni fees and accommodation. Plus it seems like the only way our generation of children will be able to own their home, as opposed to renting, is if they get a leg up from their parents.

This requires long term financial planning. Something to consider if you are giving up work or cutting hours.

And children can still thrive if both parents work, hth.

psst, people! Pound notes were phased out Quite Some Time ago... Just sayin'

Fiver notes then, to reflect inflation.

i agree blue. I'm talking about the very early years, 0 to five really. I think for most people that's the time when pound - oops - fiver notes may take a back seat a bit and when other things ARE more important. But yes, totally agree. Families are expensive. Particularly the education and housing side of things.

Xenia, I can not even muster to be , lol....there are more important things then money and material things.
Of course money is sadly in our society also very important....but it is not the non-plus-ultra it is made out to be....!

Can't believe we still haven't reached a conclusion on this thread after what's approaching 1000 posts!!

Two words: personal choice.

Sorry, but I can't allow this to continue, for the comfort and sanity of other users I say to you:

blah blah blah

blah blah blah

blah de blardy blah blah