To not help the miserable bastards any more

[ohnonotagainagain]

Long story short: sold house, needed to get retrospective planning permission for garage, council taking long time to decide, new owners want to get a lawyer onto us and are being very rude to us, I want to withdraw application and tell them to do it themselves.

All the details so as not to drip feed ... Sold our house to a very friendly couple who seemed like decent folk. Didn't realise at the time that we should have applied for planning permission for a garage conversion we'd done the year previous (new law brought in in our country, not the UK FWIW). We said they could pull out of the sale if they wanted (this was early days before any money had exchanged hands, surveys been done or mortgages applied for) or otherwise we'd help them apply for retrospective planning permission.

DH has been working on planning permission since then. Each time we submit, the council has a month to consider then come back with a yes/no or a request for further information. Twice they've asked for further information. Second time we took a while to get back to them (4 weeks) as I gave birth on the same day we received the demand, and between a single day paternity leave and a ft job, DH was a bit busy and it slipped his mind. So that bit I can see would be annoying for the new owners.

So additional evidence was eventually submitted and as of today we're coming to the end of another month-long waiting period, and told them at the beginning of last week that we'd know by this Tuesday (11th) if we'd been successful. They, however, took it upon themselves to call the council on Friday and were told that the application had been shelved indefinitely - in fact, looking at the time frames involved, the council must have given them the results of another application we made at our new house, which has been shelved; they don't have the right to ditch this current application at this point.

So, thinking that their application had been refused, they called their notary who in turn called me and said they were going to get a lawyer on us because we've been hiding stuff from them.

We responded with an email with the full paper trail of the application and asked them to please be patient until the office reopened on Tuesday so I could go ask.

They replied telling us that we were immature, unreliable and frankly our personal circumstances (ie having a baby) are of no interest to them, they just want the planning permission granted.

I've a feeling that permission will be granted this time so WIBU to go to the council and withdraw the application, and tell the new owners to do it themselves, as we've no legal obligation to help them and they are being bloody awful? DH thinks we should just see it through so we can get them off our backs.

Surely the covered parking is something their solicitor should have told them about when they bought the property?

You'd think so. Unfortunately the due diligence wasn't done until two days before the initial signatures, and no-one was aware of the bylaw at that moment

So if you’ve actually sold the house to them and legally the house is no longer yours, why is this your problem?

The buyers should have looked into this before they signed the contracts. Any planning permission should be done by them. I don’t understand why you are involved. It isn’t your house.

we don't know what was in the contract; we don't know what country this is, and we don't know how the law in this country applies responsibility for things said before and after a sale.

so we are just guessing where the responsibility lies.

It might or might not be the same as in the country I live in.

Any planning permission should be done by them. I don’t understand why you are involved. It isn’t your house.

Quite. We only wanted to be helpful, and it seems to have backfired!

we don't know how the law in this country applies responsibility for things said before and after a sale.

SIL is a lawyer in said country and even she is struggling now! I really only posted about the buyers' attitude, but the thread has turned into something else (although I still appreciate everyone's ideas)

Didn't you consider local bylaws when you did the conversion? Have you considered the legalities of (knowingly?) selling a house that is not in compliance with this local law?

I appreciate you've said you have received legal advice but I would really recommend getting proper advice from a lawyer covered by their professional indemnity insurance (i.e. not your SIL doing you a favour).

If they have said the new owners should make the application then leave them to it. Were they aware they had to submit the documentation that's holding things up? If it's their own fault it's been rejected then it's up to them to sort it now. Why on earth would you want to be in charge of the application - run!

If pp has been refused because the new owners failed to supply necessary documentation, then it isn't your fault. You've done everything you promised and the failure is down to them. I'd see a property lawyer in the country where this has taken place, to cover yourself 100% though.
Have you told the new owners?

Oh dear. I feel sorry for the new owners but they were mad to buy this house without PP.
They'll be wanting the OP to pay for the new car port next...

It's been rejected as the new owners didn't submit a required document

Well that is their fault then!! I mean you can lead a horse to water and all that. I would wash your hands of it now - you have tried, they have been incredibly rude to you and the rejection was their fault. More fool then for buying with no pp.

I have no sympathy for the new owners and much sympathy for you OP. You tried to do a nice thing.

I would leave it to them now. You did your best.

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I think just email them what's been said. Four weeks delay with a newborn is nothing. It sounds like you've been nothing but helpful.

@BreakfastAtSquiffanys FWIW I think your scenario was "exactly the same" (buying a place with no PP for a converted garage) and it was obvious from your first post you were just supporting the OP by pointing out what the buyers should have done differently. I think some people just like an internet argument.

Thank you @MakeItRain

With this unknown byelaw coming to light, the OP should hand the planning issue over to new owners. I don't think she can do any more, unless she pops round and builds them a car port between feeds for the baby.
The buyers' gripe should be with their solicitor for missing such an important point, especially since it seems it's not a restrictve covenant just applying to one property, but an area bylaw. Someone dealing with local property sales should know this. (of course the solicitor might be hundreds of miles away)

Well it seems that the new owners of your house have no real cause for complaint about you, OP - but they may well have a case against their own conveyancers for not doing their due diligence properly!

But if you've been told it's not your problem any more, then I'd bow gracefully out at this stage.

I wonder when the OP originally bought this house whether their solicitor was aware of this covered parking restriction...

Another one here who can't believe the solicitors didn't bring this mess to the buyers' attention in good time (if at all). You mentioned "another country", so just out of interest can I ask where this is?

Now that the PP has been refused again, my main focus would be on whether they could force me to address this; it they can't, I'd take a very big step backwards and suggest they address any complaints to their solicitor instead

If it rejected through a fault of the now owners this gets you off the hook.
You were wondering whether to tell them to stuff it or not. Now you can.
I'd tell them something like ... "We did our best for you, and in return you were utterly rude. So here is your chance to do this yourselves. Do not contact us for any help with this matter. You destroyed any of our goodwill with your recent rant. Good luck with the bureaucracy."

If I was your buyer, the moment I learned you didn’t have planning permission for a building you had already built, I would have pulled out of the sale. The risk of ending up in then mess in which you all now find yourself is just too great.

It's their problem now. It was a foreseeable problem when they bought and they continued and their solicitors let them. Wash your hands of it now OP.