To not help the miserable bastards any more

[ohnonotagainagain]

Long story short: sold house, needed to get retrospective planning permission for garage, council taking long time to decide, new owners want to get a lawyer onto us and are being very rude to us, I want to withdraw application and tell them to do it themselves.

All the details so as not to drip feed ... Sold our house to a very friendly couple who seemed like decent folk. Didn't realise at the time that we should have applied for planning permission for a garage conversion we'd done the year previous (new law brought in in our country, not the UK FWIW). We said they could pull out of the sale if they wanted (this was early days before any money had exchanged hands, surveys been done or mortgages applied for) or otherwise we'd help them apply for retrospective planning permission.

DH has been working on planning permission since then. Each time we submit, the council has a month to consider then come back with a yes/no or a request for further information. Twice they've asked for further information. Second time we took a while to get back to them (4 weeks) as I gave birth on the same day we received the demand, and between a single day paternity leave and a ft job, DH was a bit busy and it slipped his mind. So that bit I can see would be annoying for the new owners.

So additional evidence was eventually submitted and as of today we're coming to the end of another month-long waiting period, and told them at the beginning of last week that we'd know by this Tuesday (11th) if we'd been successful. They, however, took it upon themselves to call the council on Friday and were told that the application had been shelved indefinitely - in fact, looking at the time frames involved, the council must have given them the results of another application we made at our new house, which has been shelved; they don't have the right to ditch this current application at this point.

So, thinking that their application had been refused, they called their notary who in turn called me and said they were going to get a lawyer on us because we've been hiding stuff from them.

We responded with an email with the full paper trail of the application and asked them to please be patient until the office reopened on Tuesday so I could go ask.

They replied telling us that we were immature, unreliable and frankly our personal circumstances (ie having a baby) are of no interest to them, they just want the planning permission granted.

I've a feeling that permission will be granted this time so WIBU to go to the council and withdraw the application, and tell the new owners to do it themselves, as we've no legal obligation to help them and they are being bloody awful? DH thinks we should just see it through so we can get them off our backs.

I would send FuzzyGreenWaters later, my husband would be nice and see it through

Don't do anything until tomorrow.
If it's granted then notify them in the slowest way possible in the hope they'll waste more money on pointless lawyer's letters.
If it isn't then tell them to fuck off.

They must have gotten a hell of a shock when they called the council. Don’t be a dick. Just see it through as agreed and put the whole thing behind you.

You think it is fine to be as rude as they have been?

😀 Of course it is. It’s called getting a taste of your own medicine. People get away with rudeness because others feel the need to take the moral high ground and let them get away with it.

you’ve made a verbal agreement to help them

Help them. Not do it all for them regardless of personal circumstances like having a baby.

I'd send FuzzyGreenWater's letter, except instead of saying they you have pulled planning permission I'd say that "should further abusive comments be forthcoming I will have no choice but to terminate all contact and withdraw the planning application to avoid the need for further communication".

Book marking

Let me check.

You say "Sold our house"

So the sale is now complete, you have moved out and they have moved in, right?

In whatever country this is, what does the law say, and what did your sale contract say, about responsibility to obtain retrospective consent?

They replied telling us that we were immature, unreliable and frankly our personal circumstances (ie having a baby) are of no interest to them, they just want the planning permission granted.

Ha. This is just the sort of thing that some Mumsnetters advise people to say! (And indeed are doing in this thread)

"If it was me I'd tell them to...."
...and then this is what happens.

I would carry on with applying for the permission, but not engage with them if at all possible.
Ignore them. Let them sweat a bit. Be polite if you do have to communicate, but drop in that you are doing it as a favour and ‘if you decide to carry on with the application’ etc.

I wouldn't do anything at all now apart from blocking them in every way possible.

@FizzyGreenWater you're brilliant. I think I love you a bit

@Saraclara I'd be really worried if months were going by with no resolution. Especially if I'd tried to move things along and (mistakenly as it turned out) been told it had been shelved. I'd be worried sick that I'd have to find the cost of returning the garage to its former state.

The charitable, level-headed part of me knows that this is the right response. I really should try to see it from their perspective but I don't want to

I think a verbal contract is still legally binding. Did your solicitors know of your agreement? Because if you do what you're planning then yes you may have legal repercussions against you as you may be legally bound to do it.

I'd personally follow this through and just get the permission, because otherwise this could become nastier than it already is.

I'd be responding with

"I think you may have the wrong information form the council. We have a planning application ongoing on our new property which has been 'shelved indefinitely'. Your application for your property is ongoing and will be decisioned on 11th as stated. However if you believe we are being 'unreliable and immature' and wish to get lawyers involved that is down to you and we will leave you alone to continue. Please do let me know how you would like to proceed"

Nicely passive agressive!

I wouldn't do anything until I heard what the outcome of the latest planning application is tomorrow!

Frankly I'm staggered that neither of your two solicitors advised against this agreement at the time of the sale, whatever country this is in, its just asking for trouble.

Be the bigger person and don't lower yourself to their level see what happens tomorrow and take it from there. Hopefully planning will be sorted and everyone can be happy....

So much depends on the nature of your agreement and the relevant law where you are. It might, for instance, that they could argue that it was a term of the agreement to buy that you were going to sort out planning permission; or that they bought in reliance on your representation that you would do this, and your failure to do so meant there was a material misrepresentation. In the UK, because this concerns land, it's likely that you would need all this in writing, but that may not be the case where you are.

All in all, it would be simplest, and probably cheapest, just to see the application through.

You delayed it by 4 weeks, and actually even though you were doing it as a favour, you did agree to the favour. -I think that 4 weeks is a long delay for something like this. At that point, I think their trust in you has broken down - and I can see why.

You have no legal compulsion to do this, and they don’t know you - I can see why they would think that this was now going to be one delay after another. So actually, I’d have done the same, calling to check up myself.

Then, due to an error by the council (?) they’re told it’s been shelved. Not unreasonable to believe the council. So on top of their suspicion that you haven’t been bothered about this, they now appear to have proof their suspicion was right. It sounds like it’s not their fault the council gave the wrong info? And your delay May has set up the mistrust.

I still wouldn’t be happy with a shitty message from them! But I can see a different story from their point of view.

If it’s all going to resolved on Tuesday, just follow it through. If it’s going to take longer - and they have the info to progress it - tell them that after that message, you’re leaving it to them from this point. If they still need info from you to progress it, I’d let them have that - but tell them to progress it.

Don't let their increasing accusative behaviour impact on your reaction too much.

You're doing what you agreed to do. Keep your word on that. Things got in the way, but it being dealt with again. This is what you agreed to. It isn't affecting their ability to live there and I presume they don't have any notice from Planning.

Compartmentalise. Stay calm. Do what you said you would do be in the right.

If I were your buyers, I'd be pretty fed up with you and suspect that you were untrustworthy

I wouldn’t withdraw the application, as that’s vindictive.

Equally, I wouldn’t waste a second more on this.

If the application is granted: fine. If it requires anything more from you, ignore ignore ignore. If the council contact you, let them know you’re withdrawing from the process and they’ll be getting nothing further from you. Doesn’t matter where that leaves the buyers. Stonewall the buyers completely. You owe them nothing after such an email.

You were doing them a favour that you were under no legal obligation to do. They acted like you were working for them, and as if you need to get the planning permission, when actually it's them that need to get the planning permission.

Walk away. Let this be a lesson to you, don't take on other people's problems and make them yours.

From the point you sold you didn't need to get planning permission and should not have been involved from that point on. Don't take responsibility for other people's problems. Particularly not people who are not in anyway grateful for your help.

You forgot, they must have been worried every single day since the whole sage started.

I would give them the benefit of the doubt and finish the process, your DH is right.

They made a huge mistake by not waiting for the planning to be resolve before buying, but it's not always that easy to delay either. Ultimately, it was your original mistake, you made a gentleman agreement. Be kind, finish and leave with your head high.

Have you had proper legal advice on this though? It's all very well calling it a "gentleman's agreement" but I'm guessing your purchasers will characterise it as a binding verbal agreement, a collateral contract etc etc.

It will probably cost them a decent amount of money to restore the garage so they will be much more motivated than you to pursue legal remedies.