To not help the miserable bastards any more

[ohnonotagainagain]

Long story short: sold house, needed to get retrospective planning permission for garage, council taking long time to decide, new owners want to get a lawyer onto us and are being very rude to us, I want to withdraw application and tell them to do it themselves.

All the details so as not to drip feed ... Sold our house to a very friendly couple who seemed like decent folk. Didn't realise at the time that we should have applied for planning permission for a garage conversion we'd done the year previous (new law brought in in our country, not the UK FWIW). We said they could pull out of the sale if they wanted (this was early days before any money had exchanged hands, surveys been done or mortgages applied for) or otherwise we'd help them apply for retrospective planning permission.

DH has been working on planning permission since then. Each time we submit, the council has a month to consider then come back with a yes/no or a request for further information. Twice they've asked for further information. Second time we took a while to get back to them (4 weeks) as I gave birth on the same day we received the demand, and between a single day paternity leave and a ft job, DH was a bit busy and it slipped his mind. So that bit I can see would be annoying for the new owners.

So additional evidence was eventually submitted and as of today we're coming to the end of another month-long waiting period, and told them at the beginning of last week that we'd know by this Tuesday (11th) if we'd been successful. They, however, took it upon themselves to call the council on Friday and were told that the application had been shelved indefinitely - in fact, looking at the time frames involved, the council must have given them the results of another application we made at our new house, which has been shelved; they don't have the right to ditch this current application at this point.

So, thinking that their application had been refused, they called their notary who in turn called me and said they were going to get a lawyer on us because we've been hiding stuff from them.

We responded with an email with the full paper trail of the application and asked them to please be patient until the office reopened on Tuesday so I could go ask.

They replied telling us that we were immature, unreliable and frankly our personal circumstances (ie having a baby) are of no interest to them, they just want the planning permission granted.

I've a feeling that permission will be granted this time so WIBU to go to the council and withdraw the application, and tell the new owners to do it themselves, as we've no legal obligation to help them and they are being bloody awful? DH thinks we should just see it through so we can get them off our backs.

I'd wait until tomorrow when the office opens. Then if it's all ok and they were fed wrong information I'd email them the details. Then at the end I'd quote the abusive part of their email back to them and say 'you'll be waiting for an apology' and not forward a single bit of paperwork until they send one. Honestly people behave like arseholes because other people let them. You sound like nice people btw who have gone above and beyond.

I blame the coucil!

In that situation, I would say something like "As you are aware, the deadline is tomorrow, and we are expecting a favourable response then. If you prefer not to wait, I will gladly withdraw the application and you can undertake the application process yourselves."

I understand your feelings OP, but I would see this through. They sound the sort to try to sue your for damages any way for causing them stress or some suchlike. If you have acted entirely reasonably they won’t have a leg to stand on and will incur legal costs.

Have you sought legal advice? We’ve no idea where you are? No idea of your country’s planning laws. I suggest you actually get legal advice as to how to proceed & any obligations you may have. A gentleman’s agreement to you maybe a binding verbal contract in your country. We’ve no idea.

But I would so want to tell them to stuff it
irrelevant

I'm not sure she was "doing them a favour".

Clearly rhe op hasn't stated what country she's in, but in the uk at least a verbal agreement is normally legally binding. As such unless the laws in the country she's in are different, it's fair to say she is legally obliged to do this. The fact it's a verbal agreement versus a written one is likely to be highly irrelevant.

If it's tomorrow I'd wait and see the out come - and ignore anything in mean time from them - if it sorted it's done and you can forget about it.

If not I'd think about legal advice - if you have no obligation I'd tell them that and wash my hands of it. if you do - then you'll have to see it though I suppose.

We were the buyers in this exact situation.
Seller without (couldn't be bothered to get) PP for garage conversion.
First he told us that he had PP, then admitted he didn't but said it wasn't necessary. Neither were true.
We agreed to proceed with the purchase as long as a) he applied for retrospective PP and b) a sum was to be retained in escrow if PP was not obtained by the time we came to the mutually agreed completion date. This would only be released to him when PP was obtained.
Thankfully the PP came through a week before completion date. Just as well as we subsequently discovered that his solicitor was as unreliable as his client...

This is how your situation should have been handled

a verbal agreement is normally legally binding

OP never said it was a verbal agreement, it was other posters who said this. OP said it was a gentleman's agreeing, which are non-binding.

@BreakfastAtSquiffanys

We were the buyers in this exact situation.
Seller without (couldn't be bothered to get) PP for garage conversion.

How is it the same 'exact situation'? OP told the buyers they could back out because of the lack of planning application. The buyers chose to proceed.

First he told us that he had PP, then admitted he didn't but said it wasn't necessary. Neither were true.

Again, OP has not lied to the buyers so the situation is not the same.

As it's so close to resolution I think you need to wait until the council have issued their decision.

If it's approved you can turn around to the buyers and reiterate your apologies for the reasonably justifiable 4 week delay, but point out that you were telling the truth and it's solved now and there was no reason for them to be so rude.

If it doesn't get approved and there are no legal or financial ramifications for you to not deal with it any more I'd tell them you'd tried your best but you aren't going to do it any more.

In the UK, this is what a retention/escrow is used for, or an indemnity insurance. We bought a house with a garage conversion and we weren't sure whether PP was going to have been required (it certainly hadn't been obtained). Rather than faff around and delay the process, we agreed that an insurance policy would cover it, paid for by the vendors. I think it only cost them £45.

@Antigon yeah, you're right, not exactly the same, I suspect that we may have had slightly different sized ex garages

I would’ve just go back to the last email where’s where they/ the notary was so horrible and advise that you are helping them sort this, that you are reliant on the council, that you are doing this as part of a gentlemen’s agreement and no need for such a rude response. Unless you get an immediate apology you will be advising the council you are withdrawing the application and they can sort it themselves

OP said it was a gentleman's agreeing, which are non-binding

Are you having a laugh? I'm struggling to believe you actually wrote that. How do you think they made the agreement. Mime? 🤣🤣🤣🤣

They've been shockingly reckless and rude, but you'd be courting disaster to withdraw the application.

I'd tell them that you intend to fulfil your agreement but that they are not to contact you directly and that you'll send everything to their solicitor. This way, they can incur some legal fees.

i had a 'gentleman's agreement' with a tenant and when I consulted a barrister he confirmed this is not legally binding ((in the UK).

I had a similar situation from the other side OP. I bought a flat for more than it was worth as there was a good chance of building an extension (pp had expired).

The seller said he'd help me with this and stuck to his word. However, I was always v grateful and helped him with other matters. I knew that if relations soured between us he'd have no legal obligation to help, it was entirely good will and doing the right thing. But if he had just disappeared I don't see that I could have done anything about it.

Get advice (you sound like you're abroad) by all means but I think I'd just say caveat emptor and now F off (given how ungrateful they are).

I know that a gentleman's agreement is not legally binding here, we've checked that out

Just wait. When you get the next answer from the council send it all on to them and ask if they would like you to complete the issue or to continue being [all those things they said you were]?

Let them ponder the wisdom of their actions.

As a PP said, if more work needs to be done we might ask them if they'd trust people as immature and irresponsible as us to do it (using their own description of us) - that way either they have to back down and basically admit they were being unnecessarily mean about it, or take it on themselves and we can wash our hands of it.

The buyer chose to go ahead without PP. The buyer took a risk here, and could have either exchanged with completion subject to PP, or held a retention, or taken out indemnity insurance.

The OP says "We said they could pull out of the sale if they wanted (this was early days before any money had exchanged hands, surveys been done or mortgages applied for) or otherwise we'd help them apply for retrospective planning permission."

They HAVE helped: they have submitted and re-submitted the application. So all this talk of whether they have a verbal contract is nonsense.

OP, it would be ridiculous and needlessly nasty to withdraw a permission you think may be granted tomorrow. See it through, and if this one fails, leave them to it.

You were lucky to sell without PP in place, you had your delays, they have behaved badly, no need to make it worse.

Just behave properly and decently - do what you will do, don't go further and don't be dragged into childish slanging matches.

@BreakfastAtSquiffanys

Antigon yeah, you're right, not exactly the same, I suspect that we may have had slightly different sized ex garages

MN really needs a facepalm emoji. If you really can't see the difference between your situation and OP's, then I despair at you.

@Bluntness100

Are you having a laugh? I'm struggling to believe you actually wrote that. How do you think they made the agreement. Mime? 🤣🤣🤣🤣

Do you even know what a gentleman's agreement is? Hint: it's not limited to actual gentlemen.

"They replied telling us that we were immature, unreliable and frankly our personal circumstances (ie having a baby) are of no interest to them, they just want the planning permission granted."

Are you sure that these were the buyers words or could that be a rather bullish notary putting words into their mouths?

The buyer wrote then in an email to us, so no doubt there

MN really needs a facepalm emoji. If you really can't see the difference between your situation and OP's, then I despair at you
🤣🤣🤣🤣