To not allow my 12 year old DSD to come round here until...

[Bumbalaya]

... she gets some proper help for her mental health.

Hi all, my undiagnosed PDA step daughter (12) had a bad night the other night.
Her dad took her tech off her before bed and she was cross so locked herself in the bathroom and (told her mum the next day that she) self harmed with a pencil sharpener blade.
Because her mum told her dad this she went ballistic and was asking her mum for a pencil sharpener.
Obviously her mum wouldn’t give her one so she banged her head against the wall repeatedly and eventually went at her mum and dad with some scissors and a large kitchen knife (which my husband managed to get off her)
I have a 2 year old and am very concerned that my step-daughter might pose a risk to her so have asked that she doesn’t come round here until they have sought and received psychological help for her whether that be psychotherapy, medication and maybe even a diagnosis.
I am very disturbed because she has never done anything quite so extreme before.

AIBU to put down this boundary?

I think the thing that needs to be banned is her screens. This appears to have been the catalyst for the episode, and it's far from unusual for screens or attempted limits on them triggering a tantrum.

She sounds like a deeply unhappy girl. And I think people are being very unfair to you. As a step mum you have very little say or influence over this girl. And if her parents arnt interested in addressing it I don't see what you can do really. But this girl is a part of your life.

I would ban screens and pull this girl in. She needs to restablish loving connections with her parents. Spend more time building a relationship with you and her mum and dad. But it's likely if her behaviour is difficult she'll be spending more time than ever pacified in front of screens.

I’m with you OP.

Your DH should supervise her to the hilt to keep you and your child safe.

And her parents need to sort her mental health out toot sweet.

I would not be allowing my child to hear or witness this level of abuse going on in my home.

There are 2 children to consider, not just the DSD.

Yes and no mobile phone. WTF is the obsession with mobile phones? What an absolute drain on people’s mental development.

Sorry. I can see that the child is unwell but no way would I risk my two year old in a situation where knives have been used.

@JamesBlonde1 - what would be your solution if the OP said that the mum had young children too? Or do those children not matter? The OP hasn't actually said either way.

Only read page 1.

I actually don't think you're being unreasonable op. In actual fact in the world of child protection steps often are taken to protect younger siblings which may mean the older one has to live elsewhere to reduce risk. Hopefully you can all work together to get this poor girl the right support and get things back to normal.

a dangerous person.jeez.i think its not her with the need for help but you.and more so otherwsie she will never get better with support like yours.and the stigmatic thinking you are giving to a person who is ill.yes thats right ill!
poor girl.you are fueling all she feels about herself.

Nothing you have said suggests she is a danger to your 2yo.

She attacked her parents with scissors and a kitchen knife. With all the compassion in the world it sounds like she absolutely needs urgent professional help asap. Is it possible to speak to her GP our out of hours asap and get her referred for an urgent assessment? I'm no expert but self harming, attacking people with knives etc sounds like grounds for some kind of urgent intervention.

And no, I don't think it's appropriate for her to be around a toddler right now. Protecting other vulnerable children isn't about "punishing" or "excluding" the unwell child, it's just about being sensible and safe. This doesn't have to be exclusionary, it might mean just taking the little one out for the afternoon so that she can spend time with her dad, and so on.

Most importantly OP please encourage your DH to get urgent help for this poor little girl. But equally don't be shamed by a bunch of internet randoms into not protecting your own little one too. If you are worried as a mother for your child's safety then listen to your gut.

Mumminmum

"People with mental health problems will always be more of a risk to themselves than other people." Not true. Unless you think that the teenagers who commit the mass shottings in America have good mental health? Perhaps you assume Hitler had good mental health?
and there it is again.stigma to people suffering with mental health again! there is a big difference between having the mental shit hitler did.he wasnt suffering with an illness.he was just wrong.bad.
we all have mental health. and someone suffering with a mental health illness has an illness...and those people are no more danger to others than anyone who is well and actually the whole point of them is they are actually out to destroy themselves.and often love and think of others far more than they should.

Op going against the grain here but I truly believe that you can't have this girl near you or your dd.
If a adult had been threatening to harm themselves and others the way your dsd did they would be sectioned to a secure mental health facility for a minimum of 72 hours for assessment, due to being a danger to themselves and others.
This poor child is very ill and desperately needs lots of therapy and inpatient treatment.
Unfortunately atleast where we are there isn't the provision for this until a child is in crisis, this girl is in crisis and desperately needs someone to start the ball rolling . She threatened to kill herself and her parents ffs.
Protect yourself and your dd.

It's good you've apologised to her mum for the text you sent you really did need to do that.

Don't try and make the child promise anything, it will add insane pressure to her and if she can not control it and melts down she will feel an utter failure.

Join some PDA support groups there are loads on Facebook going through very similar situations with younger siblings added in.

If you can afford then I would scrape every barrel and pay to go private for assessment and support. This needs to happen now which it won't if you have to go through the NHS and CAHMS services. Children's mental health support is at crisis and failing so many children so by pass it and pay if you can.

Locks on the drawers to keep sharp objects safe, some people have knife safes if the drawer locks aren't very strong.

Stressedout10
have you ever been sectioned as a 12 year old and then institutionalized.you have no idea what they are like if not.and it all over the news almost every day how damaging these places are in the current climate.abuse and violation is rife in them.the care isnt there and often the young children are more dmaged becasue of them.
people are now seeing there needs to be more crisis care to keep families together.not shipped off thousands of miles and made to feel even worse about their place in the world and who loves and cares for them.
yes she needs help urgently but dont send this girl away her already hates herself.

Never heard of someone who stabbed someone else because "the knife told me to do it"?

Mummm I am a Psychiatric Nurse so well aware of psychotic conditions thanks. Doesn't change the fact the people with mental health conditions harm themselves far far more than other people.

Hope she accepts your apology.

OP, are you aware that PDA isn't a standalone diagnosis? It's a sub-category of autism.

If it's believed she has PDA then it's an autism diagnosis that would need to be sought. The diagnosis might then specify PDA, however in some Trusts (like mine) that does not recognise PDA it might say something along the lines of 'demand avoidant profile'.

As with many other behaviours associated with autism, demand avoidance is driven by extreme anxiety. It's management involves intensive, child-centred strategies to reduce the anxiety.

If you all genuinely believe she has PDA then you all need to start using specific parenting strategies based on that. If you change nothing pending CAMHS getting involved, it could be a long wait.

i disagree with most of the posters here, it is your duty to safe guard your dd, regardless of who the threat is, an outright ban seems harsh, there must be a way of changing the situation while fully supporting your dsd and her mother, maybe change the length of time that you have your dsd but have more frequent visits, that way it may be easier to cope if things go wrong, you are in a very difficult situation, and your dsd needs help, support and understanding, but not at the cost of your dd, i hope things improve x

@kateandme If you had read my previous posts I said out LOUD AND CLEAR that people do NOT become dangerous from having a mental health problem and that you have to look at what kinds of things they are doing. At what kind of mental health issue it is.

A lot of murders are committed by psychopaths. Being a psychopath is a mental health problem.

@Kateandme
Yes I was and it saved my life!
It took years of in and out patient care to get to grips with my issues.
Also yes I know personally how bad some of these places are. However she needs the sort of help that can only be given in such a facility.
Not all of them are bad. Also I would ask do you have personal experience of these hospitals? Or do you just judge from the horror stories online.
Most people don't talk about the positive outcome.

You talk about your daughter having done nothing wrong but I don't think your step daughter has either. She sounds quite troubled and it's not a diagnosis she needs (I'm a mental health nurse by the way). She needs love and care and attention (in the right ways). Telling her she can't come to you will make the problem lots worse. Get her a private therapist and love her assertively. Good luck

@LagunaBubbles Several of my friends and acquaintances know I am on here so I wont say why I also know something about the subject of mental illness, but fact of the matter is that the dangerous patients have many victims and therefore I don't think you can say that they are more dangerous to themselves as you also have to consider quantity of damage, number of victimes.

If you had posted up about your husband doing this they'd have all been ltb etc.
Step kids on this site I've noticed seem to be put on pedestals and their nerds come above any other kids.
I think it's extememely unhealthy.
My husbands ex went through a psycho phase where was hating another woman being around her kid so created all sorts of issues and used my son in her games. Involving ss at one point.
I also made decision that my son comes first and I'm not living my life like this or destroying his.
So I stopped child coming here until mother stopped with drama. Upto husband how he saw his kid but my kid wasn't going any where near his whilst my child was being put at risk and even ss agreed with me on that.
You've got to safeguard your child end of day.

she banged her head against the wall repeatedly and eventually went at her mum and dad with some scissors and a large kitchen knife (which my husband managed to get off her

Did everybody miss this bit? Would you be happy for your 2yo to witness this?

I don't think banning the 12yo outright is the answer..I think everyone parenting her feelings biding the best way to avoid such situations is a better way forward, but you can't all just muddle along giving her consequences like you would with most kids.

I suspect if a 12yo boy was charging family members with a knife responses would be very different.

Stressedout10 no i would never judge by what i read.yes several personal expriences.seen some shit i would never ever dreamed of.
and then seen and had to help the post truamatc efffect of those places to the sufferers.

Oh my god! You are not BU. She came at her parents with a knife and people expect you to roll out the red carpet because the girl has MH issues. No I'm sorry your being a good mum protecting your tiny vulnerable baby. Even people with mental health issues need to be aware of the consequences of their actions. If you rang SS they would probably advise she didn't come round anyone as she poses a massive risk to your child. All these perfect people not being funny all it takes is the OP to go rhw bathroom and then what. She lives next door she will still get input from her dad. He's next door!
I would explain to the 12 year old DD that you are aware that she is needing some help emotionally but because of her trying to stab her mum and dad at this point in time you have to keep your 2 Yr old safe but there will still be days out as you still love her and your child would miss their step sister too much but in the interest of safety the house is a no go area just for a while. I can't believ your responses lol its not like your saying you don't want any contact with her. I hope she gets her mental health sorted but people with severe mh needs need even stronger boundaries. I'll probably get some shit for this now but this is my opinion and I'd be interested to know what SS said on the matter x might even be worth a ring for some advice

Stressedout10 and they dont talk about the bad things going on that is the problem.far to many vunerable are made and intimidated into not being able to say whats going on.