AIBU to think this is absolute rubbish - bullying at work

[artichokehearts]

I am sorry but I am really gobsmacked at this article in the Daily Fail today. I have only ever been bullied at work once - and that was by a man. I can't be that untypical surely? The women I've worked with have all been perfectly normal and generally nice.
www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-7108281/Woman-reveals-shocking-toxic-femininity-shes-experienced-work.html

Yeaah, this.

You can only be bullied if you allow yourself to be.

Oh my God - there are people still believe this shit in this day and age after all the publicity about bullying etc!

Typical victim blaming. It's NEVER the victim's fault that they are being bullied. And telling them to fight back doesn't work.

Bullies need to be sought out and dealt with, whether they're in the school (pupils AND teachers) or the workplace or anywhere else. It isn't something we should tolerate in modern society.

Those blaming the victims are probably the same people who do the bullying.

I have worked for some truly awful, incompetent bosses male and female. I've never been bullied by anyone, which is part luck and part the fact I'm tall and assertive which puts bullies off.

That said, I have seen it many times and it's always women to women. It must not be allowed. Witnesses must stand up when they see it. I detest bullying and will make it clear I want no part. Where I can use my forceful personality to help bring down a bully I will.

I realise what I've written is easier said than done. But I just can't tolerate these people.

Nearlythere1

whether it is called bullying, harassment or whatever, the response has always been the same and that is to take it up the management chain.

employers are legally required to protect their staff and staff have a legal right to be protected.

If the company doesn't protect you, you take it to a tribunal.

I am not sure why you are struggling with what is just semantics.

@Nearlythere1 I was bullied nearly 20 years ago at work and that was the term used then plus 10 years before that.

Lots of bullying falls under the discrimination laws. In my case mine vaguely did so I could get legal redress. Then once I initialised the legal process they then did stuff to prove my case!

I was bullied by both men and women which is known as mobbing.

Bullying is actually common when managers want to get rid of staff to save on redundancy payments. Though in my case the female initialiser just had a problem with younger staff who were better qualified than her who would end up with better careers than her within 10 years.

Look, you're not going to change my mind with your personal weepy anecdotes, i'm telling you all a fact.

And i'm not struggling with semantics, it's you lot that are. In case you didn't notice, words have meanings attached to them and carry their connotations through. As @scream said, lots of bullying falls under harassment or discrimination. My question, why the need to reconceptualise it in terms of bullying then? I've already given you the answer in a previous comment.

I can see this is too complex for you all though unfortunately, and you can't see beyond your own childish outlooks.

Only ever been bullied at work by women (and I'm female). Nasty, horrible, detrimental and bitchy. Still happening with one who is manipulative and passive aggressive. Never had a problem with any of my male colleagues in 30 years of work.

OMG nearlythere, you must be a bloody joy to work with. Patronising, condescending, verbally agressive. . . a right bloody charmer. Yep, definitely stand by my previous posts. . .

women are the worst bullies OP, bullies operate through seeing a weakness in a person or have an envy/jealousy aspect. I was bullied once when young and that was my lesson in life, an effective way to deal with a bully. I didn't tell any adults and nobody got hurt but it got shut down. I have received two attempts at bullying in a workplace, shut down straight away using my childhood lesson. There is a way to deal with these people.

Nearlythere1

Interest that earlier in the thread you complained about posters calling you names yet you do that to others that disagree with you.

Bullying is an umbrella term. You have claimed that it is childish yet have offered nothing more than your opinion as evidence.

Nearlythere1, I think I understand what you're saying. Try this - what if you flip it around? Think about what the change in language says about the perpetrator. Implying that adults who engage in bullying are childish doesn't seem like a bad thing to me. As they're the ones at fault in the situation it makes more sense to me to look at it that way rather than the way you are.

I have experienced both male and female bullies at work. The women were the most toxic ime.

@doskant I do believe it involved covert recording of the bullying, so a complaint and recording was put forward and bully actually complained about being recorded! Manager made some strategic positional reorganisation resulting in immediate redundancy so bye bye bully. Thankfully manager valued a long term happy workplace over a fairly low payout.

You can only be bullied if you allow yourself to be
So not true. I was a very strong, confidant woman who stood up for colleagues against managers/clients for over 10 years. I then got a new manager (who had been moved from her previous location due to bullying) and out of 7 of us 5 had time off for work related stress/depression, one put in a complaint of bullying and was forced out and one left. She was mates with HR and constantly implied we would be out of a job if we said a word wrong- we believed her. She destroyed me. When I gathered enough strength to get myself a new (and better) job I submitted all my diary entries of her actions and a complaint of bullying - she was fired.

Definitely true that women are bullies. I'm currently in the orbit of a particularly nasty one who utilises traditional high school mentality - creates a 'clique' of sycophants who think she's the nicest person ever, then systematically isolates, ostracises, and picks off individuals - if 'the group' thinks that you're amazing, then the single person complaining about how they're being treated must be in the wrong.

^This describes it perfectly. A daily dose of being made to feel in the wrong , along with threats of being managed out of your position, erodes your confidence, happiness, ability to make decisions. Sorry you are also having to live through this.

She also likes to pretend not to know about things and publicly embarrassing me for doing something "wrong", despite following her direct instructions.

^and this.

Bullies are shit.
5 years on in a new job and I still feel terrified in my performance review despite them praising me for my performance year after year. I still, when making some slight human error, panic and want to hide it, spend endless sleepless nights worrying about it before being able to speak to the person I need to to say ‘sorry but I ...’ only for then to say that it’s not a big deal. I imagine I will feel panic for the rest of my working life now. 25 years to go.

@Rosemary, that's an interesting way of looking at, and you're the only one that has actually made a contribution to this discussion.

@Boney, it's not my opinion, I'm afraid it's a fact. Another pp made the point for me by pointing out the Equality Act 2010 references bullying but you won't find it in legal terminology or legislation before that.

@mbos, wrong, on so many counts. I would like to invoke the irony of how you're the one that is name-calling and has been from the start, but i don't feel the need :) And maybe if any of you tried engaging with what i'm actually saying, as @rosemary has, rather than just flapping about how awful bullying is and that I must be wrong because you can't possibly imagine anything other than what you believe, you would understand me.

You know what your reactions have been? Emotional. And do you know what separates children and adults? Emotion versus rational thinking. I think you are all very well indoctrinated into the mindset that has made possible the marrying of bullying and adults, when the concept has traditionally been used for children.

If your calling it the daily fail Why do you even bother reading it?

wrong, on so many counts.

Oh, I don't think so. We'll have to agree to disagree on that one.

Nearlythere1

I haven't argued that the term bullying in the workplace is fairly recent, I agreed up thread, I am pointing out that your definition of it being childish is your opinion and not backed up by evidence.

What we all should be agreeing on is that whatever posters prefer to call it, it is in fact a thing and insidious and needs to be stopped.

@mbosnz thank you for your considered reply, and for not even trying to counteract my point.

@Boney, how do you propose to stop it forever? How is that even possible? That's the point. Call it bullying and get "bigger boys" involved just like children do. It's a vicious cycle of forever involving "bigger boys" and "parents" to deal with conflict between adults. And the bigger boys and parents are authorities until you know what? Every interaction is regulated, which is the way we are heading. It is childish because its a "childish" framework of deferring to others for help.

• @Nearlythere1 *

The thing is if the language in your posts was less condescending, sneery & dismissive more people would engage with your conversation.

Being the victim of bullying, harrassment and discrimination does generate an emotional response, the level of response is dependent upon the victims emotional resilience and; if they are experiencing any emotional trauma in their personal life (bereavement, relationship breakdown etc...).

I regard myself to be a hardworking, intelligent, commited, emotionally conscientous employee, however, I've been the victim of workplace bullying on three separate occasions. The first two incidents were by two female line managers (separate occasions). I was young trying to move my career to the next level so my response to these incidents was very emotional and involved lots of tears and handwringing.

After the 2nd incident I decided that if I was ever in a position where I perceived that I was being bullied, my response would be to not emotionally engage, stay rational and only communicate with the bully in writing ensuring that every interaction is documented.

I adopted this rational approach with bully no.3 who was a man. My approach enraged him and he ramped up his attacks. I was unaffected by his behaviour so he eventually submitted a nonsensical & fabricated complaint about me to my senior manager, who in turn reprimanded me. I toughed it out for a few more months but eventually had enough & handed in my notice. On my last day my manager apologised to me for failing to support & protect me from the 'wolves'. That was my aha moment. This was the acknowledgement that actually, in the workplace your employer has a duty of care to step in and address the behaviour of the bully.

In theory yes you are correct, providing a rational response to workplace bullying lessens the impact upon the victims mental health, and hopefully the bullying will cease because they get bored. But in most cases the bully ramps up their behaviour because the end goal is to elicit an emotional response and/or force the victim into leaving their role. Lots of employers let down their employees by failing to step in.

@Nearlythere1

I didn't say "stop it forever", I said that it needs to be stopped.

You keep putting spin on peoples posts.

All this detritus of "bigger boys" and "parents" is your spin.

If I am being bullied, harassed or whatever your preferred term is. I will escalate it until it stops. If my employer or who ever doesn't stop it I will take it to the next level.

Your way appears to be a form of 'lets go outside and sort it out with fists' not very adult is it?

You have quoted some of the legal framework yet you seem to be strangely adverse to using it. Why is that?

Why are you so against making someone do their duty of care to protect you?

I think bullying is something that can apply to both sexes equally

Although the one thing I'd say is I've never seem women bullying a man.

I’ve never been bullied by any boss male or female. I guess the point is that some people bully and some don’t. I don’t think it has anything to do with whether they are male or female.

Wtf are you on about Nearly? A bully has been called a bully since I was a child and my mother was a child. Your cod language dating doesn’t detract from the main point that people should not be subject to such behaviour in their workplace (or anywhere else).

Doesn’t = mustn’t

I’m slightly less irritated by you given gin has been taken.