FGM on year 5 school curriculum

[MermaidMummy]

I'm really not sure if I'm being unreasonable, so I'm interested in everyone's thoughts.
My 9-year-old's class has just started learning about puberty. We have been told that the next lesson will cover terminology such as erection, sperm and female genital mutilation.
I just don't get why they need to learn about FGM at 9 years old. Some of these kids are very "young" for their age, and mine is very sensitive (won't watch the news in case an "adult topic" crops up).
What is the rationale for teaching this in year 5? There is nobody in the class from a cultural background likely to carry out FGM, but even if there was, would a 9 year-old know that it might happen to them and inform a teacher (if that is the rationale for teaching it)? From what I have read they aren't told anything about it in advance. If it has already happened to them, what is the benefit of bringing it up in class? Couldn't it be damaging and stigmatising?

Herland in secondaries they do one mixed session and then separate single sex sessions, a poster mentioned this upthread.

Just asked DD who happens to be 9, she said they do separate the sexes for some topics.

Other DD has just chimed in and said they did it all together when she was there.

I'm surprised you can't think of any reasons why this would be done at some points during topics like this.

For someone who is disinterested in my opinions about anything you seem to be giving them a lot of thought and you also seem to have taken my dislike of soft toys rather personally.

Playing with soft toys - totally fine.
Having a wobble about periods - normal and to be expected.

Describing your situation as - not being able to discuss FGM with your child because "she still plays with teddies and cries at the mention of periods" hmmmm - yeah I still think that child might need some support. Can you not see the difference?

Perhaps you are being deliberately obtuse but either way it doesn't really matter.

And as for the separate lessons, I think part of the problem with our attitudes to women and women's bodies is that they are still seen as taboo. I feel that the sooner we discuss with mixed groups the functions of the human body and the resulting issues, the less squeamishnessness, mystery, hatred, disgust, etc will happen. My opinion.. Am I still allowed an opinion even if you don't care for them Menu 😁

Oh no I find your opinions fascinating!

I like your latest comment

'Playing with soft toys - totally fine.
Having a wobble about periods - normal and to be expected.'

V out of step with your previous comment

'And honestly.... 9/10 year olds playing with soft toys and crying about periods. Maybe you need to think about building her resilience.'

Problem with MN is when you say ridiculous stuff you can't delete it.

I think with your earlier comment you were just trying to upset op by questioning her parenting and implying her daughter was pathetic.

Like I say, v interesting.

If you want mixed sex groups for all this take it up with the teachers etc.

OR perhaps trying to get Op to see that she isn't doing her daughter any favours by shielding her from the world around her and potentially putting others at risk in the process.

But I think you know that.

And they have mixed sex groups at our local school for these talks so we're all good there.

Some posters have disappeared up their own bums.

This happens. It happens in school communities. You would not know if it happened to a child at your school. Parents have no idea of the disturbing, ongoing child sexual exploitation, FGM, extreme neglect cases going on their child’s class or at school.

Training like this is targeted at schools that have a potential for these issues. By all means withdraw your child if you aren’t comfortable. But campaigning for the session not to be given will undermine child protection work done in that school.

We don’t randomly decide to do these sessions. They are for the good of those students.

The Yr9 students at my school have just had half a day of police intervention about county lines drug smuggling because we know children from our school are being targeted. Most of the parents will be blithely unaware.

FYI- the sessions always cost the school something. Even if it is just cover for the staff members taking part. Often we pay to have people come in the deliver this training.

No school has the money to spare to do pointless awareness sessions.

You're right Belle. Sorry for my part in derailing with Menu.

Can I ask if you are a teacher who does this training or are you part of an outside agency who offers it to silks?

Schools

It can be either. The safeguarding lead does some but for specific things like forced marriage, FGM and county lines we get specialists in. Some of these are free (or funded) some not.

Most SRE is done by teachers. There is often at least one or two who have done a course about this and then disseminate best practice.

Thank you. Interesting that this would be a topic for specialists to cover.

Potentially there could be a girl who has been mutilated and would have a vulva that was anatomically different to the material they were looking at in class

Belle would you be in favour of rolling fgm out as a topic for at all primary schools?

This would mean that it would have to be trained out across UK, there wouldn't be enough specialists. Is that going to work do you think?

If be really interested to hear how these things are covered with 9yo:

Why fgm is illegal but circumcision is not
What explanation is given for it (I found this hard to explain)
Have there been any issues with boys using it as ammo to harass/bully girls. We know they do it with petiods. 9yo can be v insensitive. Has this been OK do you know?

Thanks for the info, it is such a sensitive topic and I imagine a bit of a minefield.

Oh last one, how is it advised which communities may be at risk or how is that approached?

@MenuPlant

No, not all schools. It has to be targeted. Schools are generally good at knowing their communities and what is needed. FGM should be taught about to everyone eventually. But the prevention sessions are only relevant to some schools.

Intetesting belle.

Many posters on here have quite strong views about it, I can't imagine the current approach will be changed any time soon though.

I'm really interested in the points about how this content is handled with the boys, so they don't come away with a sense that they are less important than girls, or use it as ammo.

Do you know those things?

That is an entirely separate issue. I would think that early teaching of appropriate names for body part, boundaries, respect and consent would help.

However, if an individual school has a big issue with misogynistic bullying then they would need to address that.

But girls at risk of FGM should not go ignored because of that concern.

And let’s be clear- just because you address on set of issues for a specific group does not mean you are ignoring the others. Schools do a range of work with lots of different students from different background.

There is a big push on boys achievement at the moment. They aren’t being ignored in favour of girls. To suggest they will feel worse off because a girls issue is being dealt with is very telling of your attitude towards the pervasive sexism inherent in society.

It's specifically the point that they will surely wonder why fgm is illegal and circumcision not, that it will need to be explained why in a way suitable for 9yo.

No where have I suggested victims of fgm should be ignored this sort of accusation is really unhelpful.

Plus many schools have a massive problem with male on female sexualised bullying and don't feel with it. See girl guides report from couple of years ago plus loads of threads on here. The reply you give seems to indicate that this specific issue has not been considered when putting together materials for younger children in the areas where this is delivered. Unless it is delivered to girls only, which is possible I suppose but I think is then tackling the victims and ignoring the cause.

Men could stop this overnight if they wished.

Oh I see on a reread that you think me raising fact of sexist bullying bullying against girls in schools means I am sexist.

OK.

Of course it is delivered to girls only! We’re you labouring under the misapprehension that schools do all SRE mixed sex!

And you post was a classic ‘but what about the boys’ approach.

MGM is a separate issue to FGM. It involves different communities. I you want to campaign to make it illegal you will have my full support.

But coming into a thread about FGM education and throwing the ‘but how will the boys feel’ in as an excuse not to teach it is sexist.

And the misogynistic bullying is a separate issue. Schools should be dealing with it. There does need to be more in the boys SRE sessions about consent and boundaries and respect.

Because 98% of sex crimes are committed by men. Society is going wrong somewhere. Let’s start redressing that by making it clear that women’s bodies are their own.

Belle to be clear

Lots of posters on this thread have variously said

FGM education should be delivered nationally at age 9
It should be delivered to mixed sex to demystify the female body
Girls who are upset at the subject matter lack resilience (at 9)

And various other statements

I have a lot of questions around these points,

Accusing me of sexism and wanting to ignore victims of fgm is way off base.

I believe that if this is delivered at a national level to mixed groups of children at 9 it could have consequences that would need to be thought of when preparing the materials. 9yo are not known for their sensitivity and sexualised bullying is rife. A PP was quite insistent that it should be mixed sex, so it is probably a question for her to answer, not you.

I think if you deliver it to mixed sex groups and do not have a good explanation as to why fgm is illegal for girls but circumcision is not for boys, the boys might well feel resentful.

No one who is advocating for this approach has yet given ideas of how this will be handled in an age appropriate way.

Belle surely the boys should be taught about fgm as it is them who will have the power to stop it when they grow up? A PP said boys and girls had separate sessions on this at secondary, is that not correct?