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Original poster

FGM on year 5 school curriculum

571 replies

MermaidMummy · 07/06/2019 10:27

I'm really not sure if I'm being unreasonable, so I'm interested in everyone's thoughts.
My 9-year-old's class has just started learning about puberty. We have been told that the next lesson will cover terminology such as erection, sperm and female genital mutilation.
I just don't get why they need to learn about FGM at 9 years old. Some of these kids are very "young" for their age, and mine is very sensitive (won't watch the news in case an "adult topic" crops up).
What is the rationale for teaching this in year 5? There is nobody in the class from a cultural background likely to carry out FGM, but even if there was, would a 9 year-old know that it might happen to them and inform a teacher (if that is the rationale for teaching it)? From what I have read they aren't told anything about it in advance. If it has already happened to them, what is the benefit of bringing it up in class? Couldn't it be damaging and stigmatising?

OP posts:
LolaSmiles · 08/06/2019 22:07

bordellosboheme
Telling children to alert an adult if they are worried about a friend being harmed is abusive has to be one of the most crackpot things I've heard.

I'll go to school tomorrow and say to my group 'I know we say to report bullying and self harm and creation/distribution of peer to peer explicit images... but some people think that's wrong. So how about you don't report it to us and don't share what you know with an adult who can help because that would make us emotionally abusive adults. It would be so much better if this all went on an none of you troubled us with that information. In fact, to ensure we dont get any of you telling us your concerns, we'll limit what we tell you because not talking about things totally makes the issue disappear'.

bordellosboheme · 08/06/2019 22:12

Er you've just completely misquoted me. I said expecting a child to safeguard another child by providing them with age inappropriate explicit knowledge about horrific culturally sanctioned abuse in abuse and removal of child innocence. How can you not see that. Now that is crackpot and makes me very angry indeed.

bordellosboheme · 08/06/2019 22:14

*is not in

IsabellaLinton · 08/06/2019 22:17

@bordellosboheme

Absolutely agree with you.

LolaSmiles · 08/06/2019 22:22

It's only age inappropriate if the school presents it in an inappropriate way.

Graphic details of sexual abuse wouldn't be okay any key stage, but the pants rule and discussions of private areas and consent builds as they get older.

I trust primary trained professionals to use their training and professional judgement when selecting and delivering PSHE content.

Nobody delivers PSHE to tell chikdren and teens that they are responsible for the ills in the world. They're just taught thay if they are concerned then they can tell an adult and the adult will take appropriate steps. It's hardly abusive.

GreytExpectations · 08/06/2019 22:24

@LolaSmiles completely agree with you. No idea what bordellosboheme is on about claiming awareness is akin to emotional abuse. What rubbish.

bordellosboheme · 08/06/2019 22:34

There is no way to accurately describe FGM in an age appropriate way to a nine year old child. Full stop. It has nothing to do with the 'pants' rule. What stupid conflation of 2 separate things.

bordellosboheme · 08/06/2019 22:38

@GreytExpectations such utter bollocks that making children aware even if it traumatises the fuck out them is a good thing. I repeat it is not the job of vulnerable minors in our society to watch out for and whisleblow cases of FGM. Let them have a childhood for God's sake.

LolaSmiles · 08/06/2019 22:38

It's not conflation. It's giving an example of how primary trained staff cover a difficult topic in an age appropriate way.

I trust that those trained in a particular age range exercise their professional judgement in deciding what and how they approach the content in their schools. I wouldn't expect an EYFS teacher to tell me their personal opinion of KS3/4 PSHE outweighs the professional judgement of our senior leaders and our pastoral teams, and I certainly wouldn't be suggesting my personal opinion carries more weight than those training in ks2.

bordellosboheme · 08/06/2019 22:41

'I certainly wouldn't be suggesting my personal opinion carries more weight than those training in ks2'.

Well perhaps it's time to think for yourself a little more......

LolaSmiles · 08/06/2019 22:52

Well perhaps it's time to think for yourself a little more......
I do... and part of that is knowing where my area of expertise ends and someone else's begins. Also as the contexts or facts or research changes, I also change my mind (part of the whole thinking for myself thing and not clinging to a personal opinion and rubbishing different views). There are things I agree with now that I didn't years ago, and in reverse. There are things I don't agree with personally in schools because i would rather do them another way, but I accept that actually 5 different schools might have different approaches and there might just be merit in all of them in different contexts. Sitting on the sidelines deciding my way is right therefore they all must be wrong would be foolish.

But then in general life I have never understood people who cling to their opinion like it's some holy gospel truth and their own lack of knowledge on an issue makes their view equal to those who know more.

ohwhattodowithmylife · 08/06/2019 22:56

I haven't read the whole post but I can't believe that the school are no Longer going to teach about FGM. They have bowed to pressure of a few parents.

You are doing all girls a disservice. Girls need to
Know/understand that they own their bodies and no one has a right to change them in any way.

Women die because of this practice and it has to stop, the only way this will happen is through greater awareness, so girls know that this is not normal or acceptable. Perhaps it would enable them to speak out about their fears etc if they thought they may be at risk.

OrganisedKitchenDraws · 09/06/2019 03:09

Any woman who shelters a daughter from the information based on the fact she doesn't believe she is "old enough" to be taught it, needs to get a grip.

The children it happens to are younger than this. Education is the key to eventually stopping this barbaric act on young women.

To think the NC would go into graphic intimate detail is sensationalist and you know it. They will cover the basics and advise children what to do and how to seek help, how is anyone ever not old enough to know these simple aids?

Fgs.

GreytExpectations · 09/06/2019 07:48

Any woman who shelters a daughter from the information based on the fact she doesn't believe she is "old enough" to be taught it, needs to get a grip

This.

Fibbke · 09/06/2019 09:02

Grip happily taken. I think anyone who expects 8 year olds to sort this is naive at best, salacious and over dramatic at worst.

Herland · 09/06/2019 09:26

such utter bollocks that making children aware even if it traumatises the fuck out them is a good thing.

Why on earth would it traumatise the fuck out them. The teachers aren't going to be doing a live demonstration. Think people are getting a bit hysterical. Giving children facts in a gentle, age appropriate way will not traumatise them unless they have significant mental health issues already. I honestly have concerns about the next generations resilience and engagement in world and political affairs if their parents are so afraid of damaging them they keep them ignorant.

Fibbke · 09/06/2019 09:33

I honestly have concerns about the next generations resilience and engagement in world and political affairs if their parents are so afraid of damaging them they keep them ignorant

You needn't worry. Not thinking Fgm education is necessary in a school where literally noone comes from at at risk category doesn't mean we are growing a generation of bigots. And the government agrees as they also leave it up to schools and say they dont have to teach it as long as teachers are aware.

Amazingly young teens are still shocked by fgm when they learn about it in secondary school so they still have opportunities to develop this magical 'resilience'
.

Herland · 09/06/2019 09:43

No one said it meant you were growing a generation of bigots. More like a generation of kids too scared to function.
Kids learn lots of things that are not necessary at school - are you going to demand that they are all removed from the schools curriculum or is it just the things that involve talking about genitals.

Kids only just learning about their own genitals at 9/10 is utterly bonkers. Parents who can't talk about their children's bodies in functional terms are doing them a disservice.

Fgm can be explained in very simple and basic language.

Fibbke · 09/06/2019 09:49

Learning about sex and genitals is completely different of course as I am sure you agree. Some girls start their periods around 9 or 10 and its important to know how it all works.

As noone has been able to explain how they'd discuss fgm in this magical age appropriate way i think best leavt it.

I've seen a leaflet aimed at primary schools in at risk areas and it has a lot of the nspcc pants advice, explanation of not keeping secrets and a drawing of a vulva. It's actually confusing as it doesn't explain what fgm is.

BelleSausage · 09/06/2019 09:51

It’s not actually about letting 8 year olds sort this out.

By teaching the FGM is wrong it helps encourage girls to come forward to a member of staff and tell us that they think their parents are planning to have this procedure done to them.

This is about empowering the girls who might not speak up to know that they don’t have to go through with this. They often don’t know that we can intervene on their behalf.

I know because I have taught in these communities. And have been in the situation if reporting that a girl has implied that she is being taken abroad for this procedure. Things move very quickly into police hands at that point.

And it is not just FGM. We need to spend more time teaching girls that their bodies are theirs- not a man’s. Not their fathers, brother’s, uncle’s, boyfriend’s etc. If you’d heard and seen the stories I have in twelve years of teaching you might be less offended by giving these girls some information (age appropriate) about their own bodies.

Fibbke · 09/06/2019 09:56

Noone on this thread is denying young girls information about their own bodies. That's a pretty big leap.

There are lots of kids that will grow up in this country never knowing or hearing about anyone affected by fgm.

It's an easy one in a way as it does only affect a very identifiable part of the population so resources should be targeted there(despite jelly odd insistence that it is silently spreading throughout the white uk population)

Hannam82 · 09/06/2019 10:03

YABU.

School is a great place to learn this topic. A controlled environment where they can ask questions and further clarification. Rather than hearing or seeing in the internet.

You may think your child is sensitive and try to protect DC from the horrors of the world but we dont live in a bubble so they must learn it before it is too late.

Also thinking those children is unlikely to have FGM doesnt mean anything. (Lucky them!!!) But you must rememenr children have friends outside their schools too and they are likely meet with others...

Please OP, dont be overprotective on issues like those... tell them about all those other issues too... You are never too young to be assulted .... abused .... raped.... taken into FGM.... so you shouldnt be young to know about it either.

bordellosboheme · 09/06/2019 10:18

'As noone has been able to explain how they'd discuss fgm in this magical age appropriate way i think best leavt it.'

^
This.

Hannam82 · 09/06/2019 10:46

What is weird is that you keep saying she is 9 and it is too early for information that "you think" isn't age related.

Do you think every 9 year old only knows about what 9 year olds should know.... Parents have different aproach to things like that. You may not think they should learn but other parents teach it to them. One child at school might be 9 years old but her sister is 13 years old and she knows things through what she told her. Or, your daughther's classmate might not suffer from FGM but her step sister might have or heard about it from her friends.

The end result is that information passed between them and your DD will soon learn this things at the playground as a whisper and she will be more confused about it.

You can't control what they learn at what age.... so be proactive and be the one who tells them about those stuff.

Fibbke · 09/06/2019 11:16

Also thinking those children is unlikely to have FGM doesnt mean anything. (Lucky them!!!)

It's not "thinking its unlikely" in some Nimbyish way. It is knowing it is never going to happen