FGM on year 5 school curriculum

[MermaidMummy]

I'm really not sure if I'm being unreasonable, so I'm interested in everyone's thoughts.
My 9-year-old's class has just started learning about puberty. We have been told that the next lesson will cover terminology such as erection, sperm and female genital mutilation.
I just don't get why they need to learn about FGM at 9 years old. Some of these kids are very "young" for their age, and mine is very sensitive (won't watch the news in case an "adult topic" crops up).
What is the rationale for teaching this in year 5? There is nobody in the class from a cultural background likely to carry out FGM, but even if there was, would a 9 year-old know that it might happen to them and inform a teacher (if that is the rationale for teaching it)? From what I have read they aren't told anything about it in advance. If it has already happened to them, what is the benefit of bringing it up in class? Couldn't it be damaging and stigmatising?

Herland yes we know you have concerns about resilience.

You said earlier that 9yo playing with soft toys lacked resilience.

So yes, noted.

YY I am not comfortable at all with it being presented as a risk that any girl in UK could face. There is no point in making kids scared over something that is not going to happen.

Quite a few posters have pressed that it should be taught in that way to avoid stigmatising some girls. And also referencing cutting in some USA christian groups.

On that, if the idea is not to stigmatise some girls, how will the stigmatising of all girls be handled?

We know that there is a lot of sexualised male on female bullying in schools including primary. What steps will be taken to avoid some boys using this? It's the only one I can think of that is sex specific. Despite posters claiming that 9yo girls should not be upset by idea of fgm or they lack resilience (!) I'd think it would be v easy for boys who wanted to, to use this to really upset. They are 9, it's not exactly an age with maximum sensitivity.

There are loads of questions around this for me.

It's not actually in the curriculum for this age though so if they move it I suppose all of this will be covered.

It should be taught my friend was 10 when it happened her dad came over to the uk and her "aunties" held her down they cut away everything and stitched her up, her mum managed to call the police and get her help he was arrested as soon as he got to the plane going home

Oh i meant to say in pp we know that boys bully girls over periods in a variety of ways it seems quite common, so that was what made me think of the above.

Also still can't think of how to tell why it's done in age appropriate way that is true, anyone got ideas on that.

Did he go to prison Anita, and the aunties?

That's another issue isn't it the kids are told things are illegal but in practice they aren't as so few people are prosecuted.

Seems like responsibility is being passed from the police courts etc to 9yo and the focus is on girls. So 9yo girls must stop something that our combined law enforcement system can't or won't.

It's just appalling tbh.

Anita I'd be interested to know how exactly you think teaching it in primary would have prevented that.

Somehow i don't think the girls family would have changed their mind about it because they had heard their dds school teacher thought it was wrong. They know its illegal, they know it has to be kept fairly hidden but still they do it.

@MenuPlant I honestly don't know she only told me a few years ago I mean what do you even reply to someone who tells you that happened to them? She's recently had a baby though so she's got her life back but Christ was awful.

It's not a leap though. Op has clearly stated that school has only just started to identify the correct names for genitals etc. When challenged that surely they did this in year1/p1 she categorically stated that it was not done then. This is appalling.

I would have no qualms in saying to my 9 year old (or my 6 year old) something like

"You might have have heard or read about something called circumsicion or FGM. What do you know about it? Would you like me to tell you about it? Yadda Yadda.... Some cultures and religions usually in countries far away, perform surgery on the genitals of children. In some cultures they do it to boys and in some cultures they do it to girls. Usually it is done to boys because they believe that it makes them cleaner. And usually they do it to girls because they want to numb their feelings in their genitals. All of these surgeries are totally unnecessary. In girls in particular it is very painful, dangerous and can cause them to have problems later on with things like not being able to have babies or even with problems peeing. It is illegal to do this in our country and it is also illegal to take a child to a different country to do. It isn't something that usually happens here but because people from all over the world live in the UK some of them might have had it done when they were little or might feel like they need to do it to their children. It will never happen to you but it's important to be aware of what life is like for other people. What do you think about it? Do you have any questions? Blah de blah. "

I genuinely don't think that would traumatise any child I know.

@Fibbke I think awareness around it should be taught im sure most kids go home and talk about things they learnt maybe if they did and spoke about how it's wrong etc maybe their parents would realise they can't get away with it I don't know, I don't know what the answer is but it needs to be spoken about and young girls do need to know because it happens at such a young age usually before their period starts I think.

That sounds great Herland but as we aren't discussing how individual parents talk about it to their kids its slightly irrelevant

Not exactly irrelevant and no reason why teachers can't use the same language, tone and information. A teacher will know if there is a possibility that a child in their class is at risk and can add the "it will never happen to you" or omit it. But if I knew (like Op did) that the school was planning on discussing FGM I would prepare them with this talk instead of demanding that the talk doesn't happen. Either way results in a better informed child who trusts their parent to tell them the truth about difficult subjects and who therefore is much more willing to approach their parent when they need to talk about difficult subjects.

But for those parents who won't or can't discuss this issue it is essential that there is a platform for girls to understand that it is not normal and they can be protected from it.

Can you expand on why you believe that 9yo playing with soft toys is a sign they lack resilience, herland.

And why you believe it is appalling that a9yo girl might be upset at the idea of or her actual periods.

I also think describing it as surgery in your thing is not good as most 9yo will assume that means hospital / doctors and so will not understand. The word numbing is also a bit euphemustic and inaccurate. The genitals will not be numb after fgm there will be excruciating pain. So most 9yo especially with English as second language understand numb? No idea not my area. You also don't give a proper explanation of why it is done for girls. You do for boys. You need a proper explanation or there will be questions. This for me is v thorny.

I mean say that to your own kids by all means, I assume you did / will at age 9 anyway.

It's quite different from how I told my kids at 8 and 6 after they were asking questions about it after seeing a poster on the train. I found the why hardest but I was honest.

The 6yo wasn't really listening tbh which was fine but the 8yo had loads of questions! And she was horrified. Pretty weak kid eh. And she still sleeps with her bear and she's 11, outrageous.

Anita I doubt there was prison as there's only been 1 or 2 successful prosecutions and they were recent.

Thing is, this is illegal in theory but not in fact, as with so many other things relating to females and sex.

So pass it on to 9yo girls to sort.

Maybe the focus needs to be on boys, rather than girls. It is done for them after all. The focus seems to be on the victims but the cause is not tackled. Boys are a bit out of sight.

I have my childhood rabbit toy on the chair in my bedroom. I'm 53.

So all children.

The more I think, the more I think the reason needs not to be glossed over. And the boys need to understand.

I agree. Otherwise girls think its somehow their fault for having a vagina

In fact, that would be a better way of tackling it. Gear the talk around primary aged boys.

But that of a lot to ask at 9, especially with the dynamic between boys and girls at this age, it seems to be peak age for boys thinking girls are crap. How will this feed into their ideas. Its all a bit tricky.

(despite jelly odd insistence that it is silently spreading throughout the white uk population)

I’ve made no such assertion. I have said assuming it only ever happens in black African communities is short sighted, I’ve given examples of it happening in white communities. I’ve said that education can give girls an understanding that what has happened to them isn’t ok and that it doesn’t happen to every girl (many communities which practice fgm present it as a usual rite of passage), I’ve said that we can’t assume white kids will never encounter fgm.

I’ve never said it was wide spread or silently spreading in white communities.

Xpost fibbke

I worry what some of the boys would do with the info.

But this is done for men. That is the cause, the reason. Men could stop this overnight if they wanted, if they all decided it must not be done any more.

So why put it on 9yo girls

Especially when the UK seems incapable off prosecuting, that's the grown ups with power.

Why would you not have the same talk with both boys and girls. I'm not sure I understand your reasoning at all???

I didn't say that a 9 year old being upset at the thought of her period was appalling. I said that 9/10 year old only learning about their own genitals was appalling. I do believe that if a child is consistently upset about periods/body parts then it is the responsibility of their parent to build their resilience.... What do you suggest... Keeping them in the dark to prevent them from further bouts of tears? As for soft toys... I might be transferring my own hatred of them onto your poor 9 year old (and mine). Cant stand them. I also genuinely don't know any 9 year old who still plays with them - have in bed or on a chair but not actively playing with them.

I think my kids could have dealt with a more honest talk about FGM but I was being deliberately euphemistic because of concerns of age appropriateness.

You hate soft toys?

You stated earlier that for a9yo to play with soft toys is a sign they lack resilience.

Your ideas about childhood are therefore ones I would take with a pinch of salt. Your ideas about what they should and shouldn't be doing at 9, in general, seem odd.

The point is that this is not a topic that lens itself to euphemism and therfore it is hard to make it age appropriate.

There is no point teaching this and the kids not really understanding what they have learnt as this will be confusing and could be counter productive.

Just calling it surgery gives totally the wrong idea about who does it and where, for example.