To think there are a lot of people out there who have no grasp of WW2 history

[Stripyseagulls]

My grandfather fought in WW2 and I have visited the Normandy sites & it’s extraordinary how moving they are.

Today on Facebook/Twitter I have seen loads of really disturbing posts saying stuff like ‘our war hero’s didn’t fight world war 2 to live in a country full of muslim/ foreigners’ etc. Really really disturbing and horrible.

Aibu to think people don’t understand history and that the war was fought to defeat facism and these kinds of beliefs. Hitler didn’t start off gassing people- it was a long propaganda campaign against religious and ethnic groups that ended up with the holocaust.

Aibu to be disturbed by the lack of understanding of why the war was fought and what it was fought against. I find some of the attitudes in the UK today so troubling.

@Vicious, you're right. I was posting on my phone in a hurry while cooking and not thinking enough. The only thing I would add is that the USSR did make a play of it not being their war. Then Adolf launched Barbarossa.

@ Sakura7, WWII in Asia was horrendous. The treatment of European POWs was just the tip of the iceberg. 'Eaten by the Japanese' by John Baptist Crasta is a good place to start, if you can face it.

How are we supposed to prevent wars without understanding what caused them in the first place?

But even then, modern popular commentary mislocates the causes.

There is a modern belief that multicultural societies somehow protect against ethnic and religious genocide. History doesn't show that to be true at all.

The Ottoman Empire was the longest and largest multi-religious, multi-ethnic, multicultural empire in history, but when it fell, it fell into genocide, population exchanges and ethnic and religious oppression, despite those populations living side by side for hundreds of years.

Again, look at the former Yugoslava. In some cities, many people didn't even know they were "croat" or "serb" because society had been so assimilated for so long. Didn't stop the killing though.

People constantly focus on nationalism and racism as though these are the primary causes of genocide. They aren't. In most cases, they are a symptom of the true cause, which is resource scarcity.

In practically every war, the fundamental core of conflict is access to resources: natural, infrastructural, industrial etc. The racism and nationalism evolves as a way to excuse why one group should have access to said resources over another.

You want to eradicate war and conflict? Eradicate pressurised resource scarcity by managing resources effectively and in a just manner.

Notice how very few governments and governing entities do this or even talk about it.

And JQ if you knew anything about history - rather than trading in kneejerk prejudice - you would be aware that the proceeds of the slave trade were a major source of financing for the industrial development of this country. In addition to which the exploitation of colonised countries as part of the British Empire not only created jobs and investment opportunities for this country but the exploitation of the resources of those colonies contributed to the economy on a vast scale. But maybe I'm maligning you, maybe you do recognise the wealth amassed off the backs of black, brown, and other groups; it's just that you don't want to live next door to them!

Well so far we have garden-variety, kneejerk racism and extreme right-wing falsification of history on this thread and it's only page four, what other delightful gems lie ahead.

TheAverageJuror I believe the RAF photo used by British First for their crappy propaganda was of 303 squadron, which was a Polish Squadron, but they did have one Czech pilot who chose to be with the Poles rather than joining a Czech squadron.

As with anything, each soldier had their own reasons for fighting.

Of course it was all fine and dandy for the working classes in the UK before 1947, they were so well off.

The satanic mills etc.

It's all relative

If Russia and America were allies, what kicked off the cold war?
The tensions between Russia and the west were held in check by mutual self-interest, (the need to defeat Hitler), after WW2 these tensions re-emerged giving rise to the Cold War.

There's a lot of people out there that are racist and xenophobic. Plenty of commonwealth countries supplied troops too!

The only thing I would add is that the USSR did make a play of it not being their war. Then Adolf launched Barbarossa

In 1938 Stalin had a purge in the Army, where he got rid of thousands of Officers, which left the red Army hardly fit to fight any war. This was proved by the stalemate when the USSR tried to invade Finland in 1939. Although Russia made a few territorial gains, overall it was a crushing defeat and an embarrassment to Stalin. The Red army was in no state to fight a war in 1939, and was hardly better prepared in 1941 when Hitler launched operation Barbarossa.

Erich... How old was your father during WW2?

I believe he joined straight after he finished school, so 17.

I always remember my German exchange partner had ‘we learn from history that we do not learn from history’ written in tippex on her backpack.

Can anyone suggest a good book-not too technical, maybe gcse level that gives a decent overview of WW2?
I’m reasonably ok with WW1 but st school we mainly focussed on the home front of WW2 and the holocaust. I’m ashamed to say I’m pretty ignorant regarding the actual military stuff.
My grandad fought in WW2 but refused to ever talk about it save to say he hoped nothing like it ever happened again

There's a lot of people out there that are racist and xenophobic. Plenty of commonwealth countries supplied troops too!

We've already covered that one.

With pictures.

Packingsoap Although I agree with aspects of your comments, particularly re: just allocation of resources. As I'm sure you know the issues underlying genocide are complex, which is why genocide studies is such a massive academic field spawning a number of debates/perspectives. Many historians of genocide such as Norman Naimark put nationalism and racism front and centre in their analyses:

The characteristics of genocide are fairly consistent over time. War is an important precondition, though not a necessary one. Highly controlled authoritarian states, whether modern or pre-modern, have the capacity – one could even say the inclination – to carry out mass murder of a genocidal nature. The tendency of human societies to stereotype groups within or outside those societies as inferior “others”, and then blame their problems on those “others”, creates groups of potential victims that political elites can seek to isolate and destroy for their own purposes. Racism and national exclusivity, which are not exclusively modern phenomena, also breed genocidal ideas and actions. If societies stayed out of wars, protected the rights of groups of “others” through the rule of law, refused to tolerate racism and extreme nationalism and maintained democratic checks and balances on their political elites, one could imagine a world without genocide.

fivebooks.com/best-books/norman-naimark-on-genocide/

Well so far we have garden-variety, kneejerk racism and extreme right-wing falsification of history on this thread and it's only page four, what other delightful gems lie ahead.

The night is young, Dottie. I would imagine that Holocaust denial is just around the corner.

@GrumbleBumble news said 310 squadron. Big deal where I came from so it was all over news.
It's is really possible that we are both right and they used both.

*in different posts

Most KS2 pupils study WW2 but it's from the point of view of people on the 'home front' not war strategies or the origins of the war.

The old BBC series The World at War was brilliant and well worth a watch. It's long and harrowing and old but very good.

I'm ashamed to say my knowledge of either ww1 or ww2 is not great, but i think its offensive to call people who are not well educated on the facts, thick, as one PP has suggested. My grandad fought in ww1, worked at bletchley park during ww2 and worked for the home office radio base intercepting messages during the cold war, but none of that was discovered until long after he died. My great uncle also fought in the war after lying about his age to get in but also never spoke of it. I have found the d-day commemorations really interesting (from an educational pov) and emotional listening to war veterans talking of their experience.

Catapultaway My Irish grandfather fought in the 2nd Boer War (not sure of exact year but that one lasted 1899-1902), fought in WW1 (Mons) and in his 60s got the boat over to Liverpool in 1939/40 to volunteer in WW2. He was refused for that one.

I'm a 40 year old Aussie and we studied it in high school quite a lot. We watched the horrendous footage of the death camps being liberated (had nightmares from that but I'm glad we watched it). My great Uncle flew Stirling bombers out of RAF Oakington and became friends with H.E. Bates of Darling Buds of May fame (he was a war writer at the time, and wrote a story about my great uncle). His sister, my great aunt served in Australian intelligence and wouldn't say anything about what she did until 50 years had passed. My maternal grandfather served in the RAN, and I dearly wish I'd known him but he died a month before I was born. I took DTDs to a memorial dedication in the Netherlands in 2017, to commemorate the 75th anniversary of my great uncle's plane being lost. So whatever is being taught in school, I'll at least teach my kids as much as I can.

TheAverageJuror it might have been some other twats that misappropriated the 303 image. A relative of mine is in the photo so it stood out.

@GrumbleBumble I am so sorry. And yeah. It seems like a thing they all do, isn't it...

Rootytoothy It's a long time since I read it but AJP Taylor's'The Second World War: An Illustrated History is quite concise and accessible.

(Although I'm sure someone will come along and put me right on that)

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-33105898

Maybe post this on fb?