To think there are a lot of people out there who have no grasp of WW2 history

[Stripyseagulls]

My grandfather fought in WW2 and I have visited the Normandy sites & it’s extraordinary how moving they are.

Today on Facebook/Twitter I have seen loads of really disturbing posts saying stuff like ‘our war hero’s didn’t fight world war 2 to live in a country full of muslim/ foreigners’ etc. Really really disturbing and horrible.

Aibu to think people don’t understand history and that the war was fought to defeat facism and these kinds of beliefs. Hitler didn’t start off gassing people- it was a long propaganda campaign against religious and ethnic groups that ended up with the holocaust.

Aibu to be disturbed by the lack of understanding of why the war was fought and what it was fought against. I find some of the attitudes in the UK today so troubling.

don't have much understanding, it doesn't interest me at all. I hate the glorification of war. I think it promotes further wars. I am a pacifist. There is no excuse for war, that's all we really need to teach.

Fucking hell.... I'll try to restrain myself and remain polite.

How are we supposed to prevent wars without understanding what caused them in the first place? How will people understand the true horror of war unless they learn about it?

Do you think if an evil dictator comes to power he should just be allowed to do what he wants? If Hitler hadn't been stopped, he would have gassed millions more people to death in the concentration camps. As well as Jews, he would have gone after anyone who was different; ethnic minorities, disabled people, etc. Not just in Germany and Poland but across Europe, maybe even in Britain had he succeded. All of Europe would have been under the occupation of a monster.

You really need to pick up a history book.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but our grandfathers fought because they were largely conscripted (forced).

My grandad joined the TA in 1938 because he could see it war was likely and he wanted to be properly trained and be a seargant rather than be conscripted. He was evacuated from Dunkirk, fought at Arnhem, in Egypt and Morocco and eventually suffered a life changing injury and was discharged.
For what it's worth apart from stories he told me growing up we learnt about the war in primary school, I remember celebrating the 50th anniversary of VE day with a street party. I did History at GCSE and A Level and covered the first and second world war in both. Definitely covered Russia at a level as we did the revolution so got a big overview.

WW2 was very complex and it is inevitable that school and popular history simplifies it.

In popular culture WW2 is about plucky Brits in Spitfires, D-day, the Holocaust and maybe Hiroshima.

There seems to be very little mention of other spheres of the war - Italy, Malta, Japan, Russia, Africa etc.
As a couple of examples of 'hidden' history in WW2 few people are aware that the Japanese used large numbers of Sikh prisoners as guards in the camps and they were known for being far more brutal than the Japanese. Equally the work of the women Air Transport Auxillary pilots who delivered planes around the UK during the war for the ATA is still relatively unknown.
But unless you are a historian (or have a personal interest) I'd suggest in 2019 there are probably more important things to know about than the details of WW2.

Overlord was crucial to the winning of the war.

Totally agree-I was coming on to make your point about Stalin wanting a second front in 1943 (we invaded Sicily instead), but you beat me to it!

And, whilst admitting that Stalingrad and the battle that followed (Kursk) were arguably the turning point in the Western war, neither Russia or the rest of the allies could have won the war on their own. They both relied on each other to keep Germany fighting on two fronts.

I was an adult before I'd heard of non-UK groups fighting for the British Army like the Gurkhas

Well then you're either incredibly thick or you weren't paying attention! Britain and her Allies, people.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but our grandfathers fought because they were largely conscripted (forced)

My grandfather volunteered (WW1) as did my father (WW2).

Equally the work of the women Air Transport Auxillary pilots who delivered planes around the UK during the war for the ATA is still relatively unknown

My Auntie was one of them-she delivered mainly Lancasters from Manchester to various RAF bases around the country.

That's true Grumpy, WW2 spanned far and wide. I knew nothing about what happened in South East Asia until I went on holiday to Thailand and visited the Death Railway museum and the cemetery for the fallen soldiers. Almost 7,000 buried there. What happened to them on the railway is one of the most horrific things I've learned about in the war.

There is a lot that history books dont write about. My grandfather often said if the poor souls that fell knew what I know now they would be turning in their graves! Make of that what you will.

He fought in Europe before being sent on the North Africa campaign, but was never the same after the war. I think a lot of the boys that fell would be distraught at what this country has become and to think otherwise is sheer ignorance. Our boys fell to prevent fascism and to defend a threat to our country, the country of then is not the country of today and they would see that in an instant as many of the old boys I knew would say. Those that grew up in areas once lovely that turned in to slums in a short space of time and those communities broken up ethnically, culturally, religiously, all I spoke to felt a foreigner in their own country...even if it was just their area that to them was their world.

We owe a debt to the boys that fell during both wars and I think watching parts of our country turn in to an utter mess, economically, socially, culturally...What did they fall for then? I live in South London so I say strictly as someone exposed to the fullest of what it means to live in Modern Britain and I spoke to and knew a hell of a lot of Londoners who fought and come home from the trenches. No offence OP but if you think you're speaking for all our brave men then you are hugely mistaken. What this country has turned in to today utterly destroys what our men fought and died for. Yes other ethnicities were involved, first and foremost not to the numbers of Europeans, but secondly it means nothing. Those that come here afterwards in the 50s and 60s wanted to be apart of this country. Many of those that have come here in the last 20 years, certainly where I live, absolutely do not and care very little for this country or its people or those that perished so we could be free and they could live in a first world developed country that is vast becoming like the countries many are fleeing from for a better life.

Actually Hitler wasn't a fascist at all. He was a national socialist. He was extremely left-wing, not right-wing.

YANBU OP re: knowledge of history which is further demonstrated by the peddling of false information on this very thread, as with Agnurse above! And Sparklesocks right to be sceptical about that blog which also has extreme right ties. Glad to see Agnurse’s claim that Hitler was extreme left has been contested here. It’s a common form of revisionist history and as such a claim that is most often made by contemporary extreme right followers i.e. fascists and those with fascist leanings such as those charming white supremacists. I don't know your affiliations Agnurse - all though I too know you from other threads - but I am personally wary of those who put that claim forward.

Not sure if it's ironic or galling to see it being trotted out on a thread about the need to have a better understanding of WW2 history.

“…the corporate and media sponsors of the attacks on the welfare state now seek to discredit the social democratic platform by disparaging it as historically fascist. That is also why they attack reputable sources of news like the ABC, and why they seek at once to discredit universities as "politically correct" and to pervert their mission by inserting into them privatised think thanks espousing Hayakian ideology. So, too, they proffer the perverse thesis of fascism-as-socialism, finding ready adherents in right-wing corners of the twittersphere and in business circles.
The collective ignorance displayed by this revisionist commentariat is proportionally related to the outlandishness of its historical interpretations and its sophomoric ignorance of the recent history of Western civilization.
The revisionists likely neither know nor care that the monument erected to the German strikers who lost their lives confronting the Kapp Putsch was ritually destroyed by the Nazis in 1936.”
www.abc.net.au/religion/nazism-socialism-and-the-falsification-of-history/10214302

I went to school in the late 70s and early 80s, and I wasn’t taught anything about the wars. My father fought in WWII but he never spoke about it, other than mentioning he had been shot in the lip once.

I first found out about it through the big TV documentaries, The World at War and The Holocaust - my parents were watching, so I sat and watched too. Kids don’t do that these days, with YouTube and etc instead.

Also, there were loads of war films on telly in those days too - I got to know a lot through those.

It was never covered at my school. I learned about the Chartists and the Corn Laws though.

@sakura7 What the Japanese did to the Chinese even before the outbreak of WW2 in Europe was horrific even Hitler sent word to cease the barbarity, that's how horrific that was. I have nothing but respect for the Japanese, but WW2 is certainly not their finest hour...but then I still stand against the use of atomic weapons against Japan. There is a lot that isn't stated in the history books, a lot of massacres generally left out, not a lot is spoken about the lead up to WW2 which was ultimately a continuation of WW1. Europe was fascinating from a historical perspective from 1900 onwards, war aside, what was happening politically, economically, socially, to be honest it's not too dissimilar to now but played a huge part in WW1 and WW2. They should teach more of that as well as the barbarity to show how in the right conditions and environments, unspeakable horror can easily breakout anywhere on the planet...Even the safest country.

Erich... How old was your father during WW2?

That's true Grumpy, WW2 spanned far and wide. I knew nothing about what happened in South East Asia until I went on holiday to Thailand and visited the Death Railway museum and the cemetery for the fallen soldiers. Almost 7,000 buried there. What happened to them on the railway is one of the most horrific things I've learned about in the war

It also has to be remembered that Japan and China had been at war on and off since 1931, and it was a horrific and bloody war that barely gets mentioned "in the west". It is only when it gets melded into WW2 that it gets a mention.

WARNING-please don't google this if you'd prefer not to, as it may be EXTREMELY upsetting to some people, it is an illustration how this horrific and brutal war got completely forgotten, and barely gets a mention in History.

The rape of Nanking

(I have deliberately not put it as a link, so it has to be a conscious decision to google it)

What the Japanese did to the Chinese even before the outbreak of WW2 in Europe was horrific

It was beyond horrific.

I don't have a problem with the use of the first atomic bomb.

I didn’t bother to read the second entry.

Don't bother. I've just got through it. Lots of attempts at scholarly language, but there are 15-year-olds taking GCSE history who could teach him a fair bit about historical analysis and what a primary source is.

Compare North Korea the proper title for which is the Democratic People's Republic of Korea - does the fact that a dictatorship has adopted the title democratic make it a democracy or its government democratic? The answer is no! Similarly Hitler using the term 'Socialist' does not make him a socialist!

“The country of then is not the country of today.” And thank God for that. I much prefer today’s world, despite the genuine problems and challenges we all currently face.

The current swing toward fascism in many countries is deeply worrying, but if we have learned anything from the past (and I hope we have), we have a decent chance to turn things around.

I agree OP. Although we did the build-up of WWII for GCSE, I learned nothing about the war itself. I was in my 20s when I learned that 20m Russians had died - before then I thought it was mainly fought by Britain and America.

D-Day was important, but the scale of suffering on the Eastern front beggars belief.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/percentage-of-countries-who-died-during-wwii-2014-5

Erich... How old was your father during WW2?

I can't answer for Erich, but my Grandfather and father also served in WW1 and WW2 respectively (although my grandad served in both)

My Grandad was born in 1898, and went to enlist in 1914 at the outbreak of War. He would tell the story that when he and his friend went to enlist they asked their ages and they said "16", and the recruiting sergeant told them to walk round the block and come back when they were 19. This they did. My grandad survived, his friend didn't.

My father also volunteered for WW2 (because he didn't want to get called up for the Army, so volunteered for the RAF). He flew 33 Bomber missions between 1943 and 1945. When the war finished he was 21.

the country of then is not the country of today

I should think not, given the 75 years which have passed.

I think a lot of the boys that fell would be distraught at what this country has become and to think otherwise is sheer ignorance.

And I think they'd have been delighted and to think otherwise is sheer ignorance, so there's two equally worthwhile opinions ¯\(ツ)/¯

Badbilly and JQ

That is utterly appalling :(

Those that come here afterwards in the 50s and 60s wanted to be apart of this country. Many of those that have come here in the last 20 years, certainly where I live, absolutely do not and care very little for this country or its people or those that perished so we could be free and they could live in a first world developed country that is vast becoming like the countries many are fleeing from for a better life.

But yes, if my grandfather - a lifelong socialist, who campaigned against discrimination in all its forms - who also volunteered to fight fascism in WW2 could hear what you are saying he would feel beyond appalled that he fought in order for people like you to spout your thinly-veiled racist views in his name.

I think my main issue is that people don’t seem to have learnt the lesson

It's rather naive that you think mankind is able to learn anything at all from either real life experience or history.

European countries have been fighting bloody wars against each other for centuries, each war often just a few years apart, 21years only separate WW1 and WW2......

The EEC was an attempt (initially between France and Germany) to build a new way of preventing war and has done rather well but our we thankful?
No! we want to smash that up now.

This is interesting, I think
m.youtube.com/watch?v=zjTgMbkZcbM#fauxfullscreen