To think there are a lot of people out there who have no grasp of WW2 history

[Stripyseagulls]

My grandfather fought in WW2 and I have visited the Normandy sites & it’s extraordinary how moving they are.

Today on Facebook/Twitter I have seen loads of really disturbing posts saying stuff like ‘our war hero’s didn’t fight world war 2 to live in a country full of muslim/ foreigners’ etc. Really really disturbing and horrible.

Aibu to think people don’t understand history and that the war was fought to defeat facism and these kinds of beliefs. Hitler didn’t start off gassing people- it was a long propaganda campaign against religious and ethnic groups that ended up with the holocaust.

Aibu to be disturbed by the lack of understanding of why the war was fought and what it was fought against. I find some of the attitudes in the UK today so troubling.

I think I started to understand WWII a bit from reading Judith Kerr's books. I would have been about 9 or 10 when I read, "When Hitler stole Pink Rabbit".

I think it is very difficult for any of to say what we would do, because we have the benefit of hindsight.

^ this.

I was recently watching something about Germany pre WWII and how at one point Jews started to return to Germany as they believed the laws separating them from the general population (I can't think of a better phrase, I know that is clumsy) would actually help them.

Antisemitism was rife in Europe, it could seem better to know which jobs not to apply to because they were banned for Jews compared to just being told 'no' after applying.

A couple of years ago I read about the convents / RC schools / RC institutions in Belgium. As the RC church ran all the schools at the time there was a sort of truce with the occupiers. This enabled Jewish children to be hidden in schools with a new identity.

There were many discussions with parents and carers as to participation in RC life. Some parents would allow their children to be baptised, which meant they could take communion, some parents did not allow it at all, in some cases one parent wold and in others parents said, 'not now but if it saves their life then do it in the future'.

This caused problems after the war because the children were lift with a strange mix of Jewishness but many also now had a belief in Christianity.

''Actually Hitler wasn't a fascist at all. He was a national socialist. He was extremely left-wing, not right-wing''.

This.

The whole reason the allied governments opposed Hitler initially was the threat he posed to the Capitalist economic system above any other ideologies that his politics held.

Oh dear.

@Steamfan - perhaps they knew about the German sinking of the Lusitania and confused it with Titanic? Perhaps they’d heard about the titanic’s sister ship being sunk when it hit a mine in WW1? Either way it’s not that shocking.

''Actually Hitler wasn't a fascist at all. He was a national socialist. He was extremely left-wing, not right-wing''.

This.

The whole reason the allied governments opposed Hitler initially was the threat he posed to the Capitalist economic system above any other ideologies that his politics held.

The ignorance is strong in both of you.

I don't think it's a lack of education, but rather being susceptible to the propaganda from the right, particularly now related to Brexit. There were Facebook memes going around with photos of WW1 cemeteries and the phrase 'We've already paid the price' in relation to the Brexit 'divorce' settlement. Disgusting corruption of history, but it's deliberate rather than coming from real ignorance.

"''Actually Hitler wasn't a fascist at all. He was a national socialist. He was extremely left-wing, not right-wing''.

This.

The whole reason the allied governments opposed Hitler initially was the threat he posed to the Capitalist economic system above any other ideologies that his politics held."

This is rubbish! Socialist was just part of the name. Hitler put it in there to appeal to people, just like populists now (UKIP, Brexit Party, Trump, etc.) pretend to be for the 'people' or 'the working class' and against the establishment when the opposite is true.

Please tell me you don't really believe Hitler was a socialist and not a fascist!

I think it is very difficult for any of to say what we would do, because we have the benefit of hindsight.

But now we do.
We know what are the consequences of allowing the far right to spread.
We must not think what we'd have done, but what we can do now.

Please tell me you don't really believe Hitler was a socialist and not a fascist!

Unfortunately this fallacy has become prevalent in recent years, perpetrated I suppose by the far right.

OP, TBH I'm often gobsmacked at the lack of history generally. Until I was in my 20s and started work, I genuinely thought everyone knew the stuff I did. At first it was people who weren't very well educated but now it seems that people from all walks of life neither know or care about what I would consider to be basic general knowledge, not just history either.

Incidentally, I grew up on a council estate but had a very good education, a father who was politically aware and we would watch - and discuss - TV programmes together as there were so few channels. I learned a lot from tv dramas and reading too.

Actually Hitler wasn't a fascist at all. He was a national socialist. He was extremely left-wing, not right-wing''.

Left wing?

I doubt the occupants of Auschwitz and Belsen and the other death camps would agree.

Yes OP there is horrendous ignorance about history, as is sadly evident on this thread.

The stupidity of people using D Day as a platform for racism is unlimited.

Those men fought to unite Europe and were a diverse bunch, many commonwealth soldiers were involved too.

But you can't reason with a racist, logic doesn't work with illogical people.

I've just returned from Germany - earlier this week I paid a visit to Dachau concentration camp memorial, out of interest (I've long had an interest in both World Wars) and to pay my respects.

It was utterly horrific, and in no way sugar-coated - there were also lots of German school parties there on the day I visited. I was pleased to see that Germany is (in that instance at least) owning the horror of its past, and teaching the next generation how utterly inhumane man can be to man if left unchecked.

''Actually Hitler wasn't a fascist at all. He was a national socialist. He was extremely left-wing, not right-wing''.

This.

The whole reason the allied governments opposed Hitler initially was the threat he posed to the Capitalist economic system above any other ideologies that his politics held.

Hitler was not a "Socialist". As I have previously posted (I think about page 3 -cba to look) there are official definitions of the political-economic terms for Communism, Socialism and Fascism. The Nazi party were very firmly in the "Fascist" definition.

I also recommend reading "Mein Kampf" -it is a struggle, (see what I did there?) I admit, as it is long, repetitive and boring, but it is, at the same time, a brilliant insight into the early history of Hitler and the Nazi party.

Read it- and then come back with your rubbish (I was going to say Bollocks, but am much too polite) that he was a "Socialist".

It will also give you an insight into the French Invasion of Germany in 1923 - another facet of History that not many people are aware of, and one of the main reasons why Hitler wanted to re-arm.

The main reason Hitler was appeased by other Western Governments, was his opposition to Communism, which was feared much more by the "establishment" than Fascism.

And agree with all PPs that Hitler was definitely not a socialist nor left wing...

What annoys me is no where in education is it mentioned that the Channel Islands were invaded by the Germans. Pretty significant but never taught

What annoys me is no where in education is it mentioned that the Channel Islands were invaded by the Germans. Pretty significant but never taught

That in itself is not entirely accurate. The Channel Islands were not defended at all (as they were deemed of no significant strategic value to the Germans), so no actual "invasion" took place, although the British, in their typical bumbling approach at the time, forgot to mention this aspect to the Germans, and so air raids killed about 50 Islanders, before they realised that the islands had been "de-militarised" and were undefended. Britain took the view of why waste more lives (of soldiers and civilians) in defending something of no actual strategic value.
The Germans used very much a "softly softly" approach to governing the islands, ( in very relative terms, obviously) and they were used for training and a "R & R" resort for tired soldiers from the eastern front. There was also a German penal colony there, the German Soldiers from which were put to work mending roads and building fortifications alongside other prisoners from other nationalities (mainly Polish, and some Spanish from the civil war) who were from the 4 or 5 Labour camps that were established there.

Many of the Germans left the islands soon after the invasion of Normandy, leaving a bit of a skeleton force there, but the islands were not liberated until after the German Surrender in May 1945. The last year of occupation was horrific, as many civilians died of starvation, as they were unable to be supplied by either the Germans or the Allies at the time, and were only kept supplied by a solitary Red Cross boat, that visited the Island about 4 or 5 times in 1944-45. The German garrison refused to surrender, even though their situation was hopeless.

Sorry, that went on far longer than I intended, but you are correct that it hardly gets a mention in History, because maybe the "establishment" is a little embarrassed by the whole affair, but at the time, they had very little option. There are loads of Books about the subject however, and a memorable ITV drama "Enemy at the Door"" which was very popular and aired in the late 70's.

*Left wing?

I doubt the occupants of Auschwitz and Belsen and the other death camps would agree*

Google Vasily Blokhin. A senior officer in Stalin's NKVD who personally killed over 7000 Polish officers during the Katyn Masacre. To put that into perspective, over a 28 day period, working in 10 hour shifts, he killed one prisoner every 2.5 minutes, with a shot to the back of the head. Blokhin Is officially acknowledged as the most prolific individual killer in recorded history.

That's the thing about the Left. It was just as good at killing. It just didn't bother with death camps. It either murdered you in the woods or it worked and starved you to death in the vast Gulag prison system. Millions upon millions murdered in the name of 'true' socialism.

badbilly if you ask a local jersey person I think they would see it very very differently. As far as they were concerned they were invaded and then liberated.

if you ask a local jersey person I think they would see it very very differently. As far as they were concerned they were invaded and then liberated.

No doubt some would see it different. The ones in my family call it an "occupation" and didn't speak to several family's from the 1940's until they died in the 1970's , treating them as collaborators. There was a lot of "bad blood" between many families. However, my surviving cousins still celebrate the liberation (I think they celebrate it on 9th May, and I think it is a Public Holiday) although I haven't seen them in years, and I have never met some of their children.

Viciousrooster the Russians weren't socialists, they were communists. Not the same thing at all. Extremes of either left or right wing are never good.

I was talking with a German woman in her mid 50's a month or so back who said that she was sad to have been born German. This is of course 20 years after WW2.
Although the Germans 'industrialised' killing in many ways the concentration camps were used by the British previously in other countries.
Zyklon B was developed by a German Jewish chemist, Franz Haber and it is a development of pesticides that currently keep about half the planet fed. Clara Immerwahr, his wife, who also had a doctorate in Chemistry committed suicide when she discovered her husband had produced the forerunner to Zyclon B.

My father's side of my family is German. I grew up in Germany in the 70s and 80s. I can honestly that during that time WW2 and the 3rd Reich was very thoroughly covered in History class. I was living in Munich, and I think at the time everyone around the area visited Dachau KZ at least once in school.

My grandparents were opposed to Hitler, however they had to adopt a strategy of survival to keep their family safe. I believe this was mainly due to my grandmother as grandfather was a very outspoken individual and was threatened with arrest on at least one occasion that I know of. My grandfather would not allow my father to join the Hitler Youth, and luckily at the time my father had a very sympathetic teacher. Party officials would visit the school and once my father was questioned why he was not a member (my father was around 10 at the time). The teacher jumped in and told the official that the family was in agriculture and that the boy had to work at home. Another time the teacher had my father climb out the window to avoid another encounter with party officials. My father managed to dodge the Hitler Youth until the end of the war.

I grew up with this sort of family history as there were many family members with stories to tell. I regret now that my grandfather's generation is mostly gone (I never met my grandfather, sadly) and I never wrote down their stories. I might still try to piece things together from what my father can tell me.

Viciousrooster the Russians weren't socialists, they were communists. Not the same thing at all

U.S.S.R. The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics

Clue's in the name.

But the Democratic People's Republic Of Korea isn't democratic.

Simplistic, and flawed, argument.

Zipee I agree. I can call myself the Queen of Sheba but it doesn't make me so.

The clue is not in the name at all.