To think these people are pro choice not pro life

[ToCaravanOrNotToCaravan]

I've heard a few people say that they are 'pro life' because they personally couldn't go through with an abortion but they don't judge others who have.

AIBU to say that these people are in fact pro choice then given that they do not judge other women for their choice to have an abortion?

I think you can disagree with an action without be judgmental of it.

For instance, I disagree with eating meat but it's legal and I'm not here to judge people.

If they are ‘pro choice’ then they’re pro choice. There’s no debate to be had. Although I don’t for a second believe ‘pro life’ is a thing. It’s not. You’re either ‘pro choice’ or ‘pro forced pregnancy and birth’.

I don’t believe that abortions are a good thing. Every single one is a tragedy .

But outlawing then would drive them underground and result in more deaths, and I don’t believe that I have the right to tell others what to do.

I’m not sure if that makes me pro life or not

Pro choice.

I've heard plenty of people say they couldn't go through an abortion themselves but that they are still pro choice. I don't think I've ever heard anyone say they're pro life but don't judge others who would have a termination, the only pro lifers I've ever encountered were pretty dead set on their views that it's always wrong.

It depends. Personally:

• I wouldn't want an abortion (unless there were foetal abnormalities or it was the result of rape);
• I have a lot of reservations about abortion - eg I think too many happen because of people not using proper protection and I'm not sure whether the cut-off date should be set earlier on;
• But I do think there should be a legal right to an abortion.

So I guess I'm pro-choice 🤷‍♀️ But a lot of people seem to say you're not pro-choice unless you think it's OK to have an abortion in any circumstances right up to the due date

@Pinkgin22

Do you believe the current uk abortion laws constitute forced pregnancy? After 24 weeks choice isn't part of the criteria.

I don’t see abortion as a good thing. Perhaps I’d say that it’s a necessary evil. But I have no interest in whether other people choose to have one or not. It’s not my business to police their choices. I’ve been a vegetarian all my life and think eating animals is wrong as well, but I don’t tell my DH he shouldn’t be eating a ham sandwich.

I don’t know what that makes me -
pro-life but pro-choice too?

letsrunfar. The laws are outmoded. As currently stands choice at any stage is not a legal grounds for abortion. Nothing to do with 24 weeks. At any point choice is insufficient grounds to certify a termination legally.
That’s not practice and laws need changing in line with current practice to reduce costs but parliament isn’t about to take on the powerful pro life lobby.

@letsrunfar
No because at 24-27 weeks a foetus brain and central nervous system become developed enough to feel pain & develop sentience. The chance of viable life away from the mother is significantly increased. So at this point (and at only this point) it completely changes from: Do you want to force a woman to carry a bunch of cells, develop a pregnancy & give birth? To the life is now viable, with intervention. So what are this woman’s options?

Yep they’re pro choice. Pro life = forced birth.

What? I’m sure plenty of people have had abortions in Britain due to choice? So what is the 24 weeks thing about then?

I don’t believe that I have the right to tell others what to do

I'd say this is pro choice then. It's not about whether you or I would personally choose to have an abortion. It's about understanding that women should have autonomy over their own bodies and supporting that.

@Pinkgin22

Ok I'm with you and I agree, I think our law has it about right currently. Although the conversation has to continue as science advances. Viability isn't fixed, children are currently running around having been born on the cusp of those viability lines.

I thought you were going to one of those nutters who thinks pro choice means at any point for any reason.

OP, I agree that they are pro-choice. If they were pro-life then they wouldn't say they are okay with others that choose abortions.
Pro-life is where pregnant women must give birth irrespective of whether they wish to.

PreseaCombatir. Of course women have had abortions as a choice but that is technically outwith the current legislation. Choice is not a legal reason for a termination under the Abortion Act. Practice and legislation are at odds.

Must have been early 90s that law reduced the time limit from 28 to 24 weeks via legislative changes due to viability. It remains, with Netherlands, latest stage in any EU country.

After 24 weeks it must be carried out in NHS licensed hospital with the death or severe permanent disability of mother or baby as sole legal criteria.

Of course women have had abortions as a choice but that is technically outwith the current legislation. Choice is not a legal reason for a termination under the Abortion Act. Practice and legislation are at odds

I honestly did not know that. That’s mental.
So when doctors perform abortions, do they do some kind of work around, or are the ly literally breaking the law as it stands?

I think our law has it about right currently. Although the conversation has to continue as science advances. Viability isn't fixed

I agree.... does that make me pro- choice within limits, or within a certain timescale? If there is such a thing.

"Do you believe the current uk abortion laws constitute forced pregnancy? After 24 weeks choice isn't part of the criteria."

In view of this post by Letsrunfar I would say that I am only in favour of choice up to a certain stage of pregnancy. I don't believe we should have choice right up to birth. I also believe that the current limit of 24 weeks should be reduced.

If that makes me not pro-choice then so be it.

“I thought you were going to one of those nutters who thinks pro choice means at any point for any reason.”

Interesting. I am of the opinion that it is no business of mine why women might have an abortion after 24 weeks (or before, obviously), and it is between her and the medical staff treating her. I also don’t think legislation should come into it. Does that make me a nutter?

I agree with the OP. If you don’t care what other people choose to do you are pro-choice. It is the propaganda of the forced birthers that suggests that those who are pro choice want to force women to have terminations

In the UK, many adoptive children are in care because of abuse. A tiny minority of children are in care because their parents put them there. This is because in the UK, the expectation is to keep the child or end the pregnancy. This is very different to the case say in America, where some vulnerable parents are encouraged to put their children into care as a moral standpoint. It plays out on shows such as Teen Mom (not the most accurate representation but still shows the differences between our countries).
Imagine the strain on social services if suddenly all those having terminations were putting children into care instead.

Obviously abortion is horrible and it would be amazing if all women could have some foolproof, hormone free, safe and 100% reliable way to avoid pregnancy but there just isn't.

Sounds pro-choice to me. I would have one myself if necessary (severe disabilities, non-viable, danger to my health), but I don’t care what another woman does. I may have a range of reactions, but I wouldn’t stop a woman from doing so. At the end of the day, it’s none of my business and has nothing to do with me. I rather put my support towards policies where women and families are supported more and contraceptives and the morning after pill are affordable for everyone.

Pro-choice is about letting a woman decide based on her personal circumstances and beliefs, not our own. It isn’t pro-abortion as many pro-lifers like to make it out as. I eyeroll the term pro-life because those who claim they’re pro-life ignore the life of the mother and do little to nothing about supporting the baby after its born especially in the US. It’s more about them forcing their religious beliefs on everyone and having some type of moral superiority than actual concern for the mother or unborn.

Meh. Pro-choice is a bit of a misnomer too. Most people don’t agree with giving the woman a choice right up to birth. Most have a threshold - eg the 24 week cut off in the U.K. or the 12 week cut off in most European countries. It’s a spectrum. There are a few at either end (contraception is wrong vs abortion to term) but most people fall in the middle.

Perhaps they identify more with being pro-life because they feel abortion is wrong in most circumstances and don’t want to be associated with people who think it’s nothing at all and should be allowed to term for any reason?

“those who claim they’re pro-life ignore the life of the mother and do little to nothing about supporting the baby after its born”

Nonsense. I’ll roll my eyes at that. You can’t generalise about an entire group of people simply because they don’t agree with one of your opinions.