To think these people are pro choice not pro life

[ToCaravanOrNotToCaravan]

I've heard a few people say that they are 'pro life' because they personally couldn't go through with an abortion but they don't judge others who have.

AIBU to say that these people are in fact pro choice then given that they do not judge other women for their choice to have an abortion?

If y’all are prolife I expect you are all avid vegans yes?

This is interesting because to me the 2 subjects (veganism and abortion) are definitely linked in my head but I rarely see others express it. I'm vegan as I want to minimise suffering and that is also why I would not have an abortion myself (as previously stated unless I was raped or had a foetus who was not going to have a good quality of life), but I wouldn't generally want to interfere too much with other people's decisions to get abortions because an "unwanted" child may suffer in the longer term. Abortion definitely seems more justifiable than eating meat etc. Also, I think practically a lot of people would just go for backstreet abortions as a relative of mine did.

My DH is adopted though and I am so glad that his birth mum did not get an abortion obviously!

The thing that would make far more difference to the actual life of children in the US would be free effective medical insurance not the crazy scenario that the foetus is sacrosanct but once born can die of cancer without treatment unless parents have enough money. Any system where a single dose of Calpol can cost $40 Is not truly pro life... just pro control.

The issue is the term 'pro-life'. If the two camps were called 'pro-choice' and pro-no choice' then it would be a lot clearer.

Does it matter if they call themselves pro choice or pro life? Ultimately they aren’t standing outside clinics trying to stop people and they aren’t judging.

I wouldn’t have an abortion myself under any circumstances, my first baby was stillborn at 35 weeks and I know mentally I would really struggle to cope losing another baby and knowing I had terminated it’s life would push me over the edge, I just couldn’t do it. Do I judge people that have abortions? No, we all make choices in life based on what’s best for us and it’s better abortion’s are carried out by trained professions than mad Mary in a backstreet somewhere, women should at least be safe.

However I do think abortions should be carried out as soon as possible, I couldn’t ever support terminating a healthy pregnancy at say 30 weeks because someone has now decided they don’t want a baby. It’s something I’ve actually seen suggested on threads about abortion before on here, madness.

PinkHeart

Does it matter if they call themselves pro choice or pro life?

Of course it matters. If people think they are 'pro life' because they personally couldn't go through with an abortion but they don't judge others who have, then they may vote 'pro-life', when they're actually 'pro-choice'. It's an important distinction.

Does it matter if they call themselves pro choice or pro life? Ultimately they aren’t standing outside clinics trying to stop people and they aren’t judging

It does matter. I think people confuse what pro life actually is. It's nothing to do with personal choice. It's to do with controlling what other women do with their bodies and contesting the legalization of abortion.

If you think it's none of your business what other women do with their bodies, if you personally couldn't have an abortion but don't agree it should be illegal for other women to, if you don't judge other women for choosing to abort then you are not pro life because you accept it's their choice, not yours.

The issue is the term 'pro-life'. If the two camps were called 'pro-choice' and pro-no choice' then it would be a lot clearer

^^ agree!

It's my understanding that accepting any form on non emergency abortion makes you pro choice, even if you personally wouldn't have one. I think to be prolife you have to believe that all medically unnecessary abortion is wrong.

I could be wrong though, it is American terminology and their laws and politics are different to my country.

@pinkgin. Have a look at the paper I linked to. It’s to do with anaesthesia for foetal surgery so it’s not written as propaganda to try to sway an abortion argument. It talks about what systems have developed and when. They can perform foetal surgery from 18 weeks so that’s why the ability to detect or feel pain is being considered as a factor.

It's semantics that the anti abortionists have chosen to use. The opposite of "pro choice" is actually "anti choice" ( which the so called pro lifers actually mean, but will not say).

It's the same the other way around. The opposite of "pro life" is "pro death" . I've never met a pro choice person who advocated that we should all die.

I've heard a few people say that they are 'pro life' because they personally couldn't go through with an abortion but they don't judge others who have.

No YANBU, you are correct, they are pro-choice. Exactly that - AIBU to say that these people are in fact pro choice then given that they do not judge other women for their choice to have an abortion? is what it means.

It's like my DH when he says "No I am not a feminist, I believe in equal rights for all genders" eyeroll... Yes DH, that's what feminism stands for.

I think pro-choice and pro-life terms are inaccurate and confusing. Call them what they are, pro-women and anti-women.

I trust women to make the right choices for themselves. I don't believe there are thousands of women only prevented from changing their mind about being pregnant on a whim beyond 24 weeks because of that pesky law. Or that most women are feckless and irresponsible and don't take either being pregnant or no longer wanting to be pregnant seriously.

Basically, I trust women. So I'll leave decisions about other women's pregnancies to them and their doctors.

They’re personally pro life because they’re certain they wouldn’t have an abortion.

They’re understanding enough to realise different people have different circumstances and they’re not interested in preaching right and wrong to them.

I’m sure no one wants the days of back street abortions with women dying in agony. If being pro choice keeps the current laws then I’m pro choice.

They’re personally pro life because they’re certain they wouldn’t have an abortion

But that isn't what it means. There's nothing personal about the argument. You can be pro choice whilst knowing you'd never have one yourself.

If you are pro life, regardless of what you would do, you believe the law should not allow other women to make the choice to have an abortion.

They're pro choice. Their choice would be to not have an abortion, but they don't seek to remove choice for everyone else.

“Basically, I trust women. So I'll leave decisions about other women's pregnancies to them and their doctors.”

Same here. There are two contradictory views, often held by the same people, which suggest that women are simultaneously desperate to “trap men” by having babies and also having abortions on a whim. It’s clear that it is about hating women

Basically, I trust women. So I'll leave decisions about other women's pregnancies to them and their doctors

Yes!

PreseaCombatir Yes a very effective workaround. The majority of terminations in U.K. are certified remotely by doctors who’ve never seen the women. Occasionally it’s the surgeon or anaesthetist at the clinic signing but usually done electronically for at least one of the two required signatures. Medical termination tends to be entirely remotely with nurses dispensing the drugs using a remotely certification and prescription process.
The law requires two doctors to certify one and the same legal condition for abortion under the Act. The argument that makes it legal is that a women is at greater risk of mental health problems if the termination is refused. There is no need to assess the individual woman and there is a strong evidence base that an unwanted pregnancy carries a greater risk than termination.

The law allows termination if
a)that the pregnancy has not exceeded its twenty-fourth week and that the continuance of the pregnancy would involve risk, greater than if the pregnancy were terminated, of injury to the physical or mental health of the pregnant woman or any existing children of her family.

No these people are prolife (forced birthers) because what they really mean is they 'wouldn't' judge other women for their choice to have an abortion but they have no problem with a change of law banning abortion.

Thank you Cherry that’s really informative.
I had literally no idea!

Not the women the OP is talking about. As far as I can see, they're not saying they're supporting a change in the law and banning abortion, that's not what this thread is about. They're just saying that they wouldn't have one themselves, that is to say, they're exercising their choice not to have a termination. They don't judge other women for their choices.

There are of course women who do support a change in the law, who think abortion is always wrong, but would still say that they don't judge the women. I know plenty who do feel that way. But the OP isn't talking about women like that.

Sorry, I meant to say, ' No, that's not what the OP is talking about.' I don't know what happened there.

@mammlamb I think that makes you a pragmatist!

To everyone who says that abortions are awful & they’re privately prolife do you eat meat? If so why is the importance of a group of cells that aren’t sentient and can’t feel pain (a foetus) more important than a sentient being who can feel pain? (A cow for example)

Well, the obvious answer to that is 'because the group of cells is (arguably!) a human life, whereas the sentient being is not. It's a cow.' By the same argument, you could say that anyone who is against murder must be vegan. I don't see that it really follows at all.

I think people can say they are personally pro life but hold pro choice views on policy.

Personally, I'd rather hear pro life being used in that way and the for the rest of the debate we can use pro choice and anti choice.
There's a reason anti-choicers like the euphemism 'pro life' and its because they're hoping people will go 'well who would be against life?' And pro life sounds warm and fuzzy in a way that 'I believe my personal opinion about a stranger's reproductive organs matters more than their quality of life and the quality of life of the potential baby. In fact, I feel so strongly that I am right that I wish to impose my opinion on everyone else and prevent them from having bodily autonomy'.

I had always believed I would never even consider abortion as a personal option, although respecting other women's right to choose. Then I found myself pregnant in appalling circumstances. During a doctor's appointment, I said "I can't cope with this", meaning life and everything in general, not just the pregnancy. The doctor heard it as the pregnancy, and sensitively broached the possibility of a termination. I was surprised to find myself asking what that would involve, and gave it active consideration for about 30 seconds, before deciding it wasn't for me. However, in that half a minute I exercised my right to choose. I ended up choosing the pregnancy, and I'm glad I did, but the thing is that I had a choice. And by having a choice, I felt much more positive about the baby and found the strength to deal with it all. The point is that I really didn't know how I would truly react until actually in that situation. So that makes me very much pro-choice, rather than living with a situation that felt forced upon me, I took ownership of my life.