To be deeply saddened by a teenager being euthanised **Upsetting content - warning added by MNHQ** ***MNHQ further note that the details of this story are disputed***

[TheHorseOnSeventhAvenue]

I am greatly aware of our rights and understand autonomy but as far as I can see this young Dutch girl, Noa, did not end her own life but was assisted.

My heart goes out to her and her family but this is my absolute reason why euthanasia should not be supported.

Thin end of the wedge imo.

I can't speak for her circumstances but many people who have that kind of trauma are in that position becauae their family of origin is full of abusive people.

This sets a dangerous precedent whereby the abusive families who have caused the mental illness in the first place will have a legally sanctioned way to push scapegoated children over the edge and can thereafter claim it was a 'kindness' and 'what she chose because she was in 'so much pain'. When you're that ill you're not thinking clearly enough to make an informed choice and are therefore extremely vulnerable to external pressure.

Oh, and I have been raped (18 months ago) and previously suffered long term with depression and OCD myself. Also been suicidal.

Now, I am happy.

This is a second girl then who has committed suicide / been eurhanised after mental health issues following sexual abuse by a man or men when young.

In neither of the reports, and I read a few on the other, was there any indication that there had been any convictions for the rapes.

In fact that side is not really attended to at all.

Is this where we are at then. Men can rape and cause the deaths of girls and they are glossed over. Her blood is on their hands. And yet the focus is away from them / him entirely.

This is apalling.

Many many many girls have mental health issues due to sexual abuse. Women to. If they can't come to terms with the violent crimes comitted against them, then their death is an option. Their abusers live, and my assumption is, have not seen justice.

I was pro the right to die - before I realised that the netherlands has no mental health care. But it DOES!!!

Noa's book says TEENS do not have acces to residential MH institutions, that might be correct, but Holland DOES HAVE MH care, institutions, inpatient care etc.

pringlefan a serious question - how long is years and years? How long will you sentence someone to live with the torment of severe mental illness? How much suffering is enough to satisfy the public? Be very, very careful what you wish for - especially when wishing it for people other than yourself.

As I have said upthread - the decision to allow this will not have been taken lightly.

Thin end of the wedge imo

I can't speak for her circumstances but many people who have that kind of trauma are in that position becauae their family of origin is full of abusive people

This sets a dangerous precedent whereby the abusive families who have caused the mental illness in the first place will have a legally sanctioned way to push scapegoated children over the edge and can thereafter claim it was a 'kindness' and 'what she chose because she was in 'so much pain'. When you're that ill you're not thinking clearly enough to make an informed choice and are therefore extremely vulnerable to external pressure. sad

This ^

Talk about being able to take Munchausens by proxy to a whole new level!

I don't think anyone on here knows enough about the case to judge - unless, of course, they are just against euthanasia in all and every circumstance. I knew one young woman who literally did starve herself to death: she had battled anorexia for years but seemed to be getting better. It turned out the seemingly getting better was just to get people to leave her alone and stop trying to cure her. She then stopped eating completely and kept a diary recording her wish to starve to death, describing how pointless she believed her life to be, and noting down every sensation involved in the process. Her parents found her dead in bed in her home, with the diary and pen next to her. She had kept on writing until she ran out of energy. I think euthanasia would have been preferable.

I 100% support euthanasia and wish it was available here. It's not for me to judge, may she rest in peace.

First of all, this is undoubtedly very sad and my heart goes out to Noa and her family.

But Noa wasn't euthanised. I read some Dutch news articles about this and in fact her request to end her life was rejected by the euthanasia clinic on account of her youth. Sometime later she decided to stop eating and drinking altogether, and at that point it was decided to no longer intervene (after many years in which she was subjected to force feeding and forced treatment since the age of 11). Very stigmatised reporting.

And of course the Netherlands has mental health care. It is however suffering from the same problems as a lot of other countries with national health plans: the waiting lists are far too long, and a lot of it is ineffective.

I think it's a shame but perfectly understandable considering what she's been through.

Many people who have not gone through long term abuse and mental illness just don't realise how it completely destroys your life.

It should've been her molester, but it's never as simple as that.

Glad the poor girls at peace.

Horrific all round. My daughter would have chosen this if it had been an option before she was properly medicated and found her life again. Thank god.
But without the help then life is unbearable and the thought of living each day like that with no end in sight.

This is also legal in Belgium (I'm sure) I watched a short documentary about a girl who did this. It was terribly sad.

Oh, and I have been raped (18 months ago) and previously suffered long term with depression and OCD myself. Also been suicidal.

Now, I am happy.

FFS! That’s great for you but YOUR story is yours alone and doesn’t and won’t apply to anybody but you.

I get that she’s 17 and it’s shocking and saddening but the breathtaking arrogance on this thread is annoying me.

It’s not for anyone to decide that someone should suffer through years of mental torture on the off-chance that they’ll get better.

How many years would her sentence be before they got to that elusive happy place?

Maybe 60? 70? But it’s ok cause it’s better than death.

Says who?

This is horrific. Who could possibly condone euthanasia for a seventeen year old instead of offering her correct support? It's not as though all avenues had already been explored and failed.

I completely agree with @wheresmymojo She was so young and so deserved the chance to rehabilitate and reclaim her life.

Now, I am happy.

And? I've had a lot of trauma myself (child bereavement, a son with ASD/PDA, OCD, PTSD, etc) and I'm not happy despite treatments. But it's not a hard stretch for me to conclude that everyone is different and whilst some people can recover, others cannot. Rather simple and doesn't take much imagination to realise that.

Awful, poor kid. May she rest in peace. And I hope whoever the bastard is rots from the inside out

I have been very depressed and tried to take my own life. That girl needed help,not death.

This is the thin end of the wedge. As funding is cut, governments will decide if the annoying sick can just be "persuaded" coerced to die.

Devastatingly sad. I have no words.

There is a real issue in the impact that lack of food and drink, of itself, has on mental health. With people suffering from anorexia, treatment is directed at ensuring that calories are consumed as this allows for rational thinking to resume (very simplistically). I would hope that this was taken into account when assessing her fitness to make this decision, but her history of anorexia and her lack of food when making the decision really bothers me. (But then the whole thing is awful.)

I was talking to a male friend a while ago about the amount of women I and he knows that have been raped. He shrugged it off. He said "of course men keep women down, we enjoy the power". I said "even though you know it causes incredible suffering". He just could.not.empathise. I have seen nore than one comment from male celebrities recently where they said they consider women to not be fully human. It is due to this, not seeing women as human, that the men that do it commit atrocities and cannot empathise. I talked to my male friend for ages and he still could not empathise. I remember thinking, "it will take women killing themselves after rape, for men to empathise" . And stop.

As funding is cut, governments will decide if the annoying sick can just be "persuaded" coerced to die.

What? You think governments are coercing people to kill themselves due to lack of funding?

Noa was admitted to a mental health clinic a total of 21 times, and kept in an isolation cell every night with special clothing that could not be torn apart for almost three months to prevent her from killing herself while she wasn't supervised.

She was put into a coma to force her to gain weight.

It is horrendous, and you can certainly question whether these treatments should have been administered at all in this way, but she had undoubtedly been intensely treated for years with no success.

I have seen nore than one comment from male celebrities recently where they said they consider women to not be fully human

Have you? Where?

It’s not for anyone to decide that someone should suffer through years of mental torture on the off-chance that they’ll get better

Erm, clearly the euthanasia clinic who turned her down because of her age.

FFS! That’s great for you but YOUR story is yours alone and doesn’t and won’t apply to anybody but you

I get that she’s 17 and it’s shocking and saddening but the breathtaking arrogance on this thread is annoying me

No - what is arrogant is having a go at someone pointing out that it is possible to be happy again after going through violent rape and sexual assault, despite having felt suicidal about it in the past.

It is called trying to offer a bit of bloody hope to others.

How the fuck do you know that my story hasn't happened to other people too? Given that you know zero about my story. And you call others arrogant!

Here's an interview with Noa from a couple of months ago:

www.vice.com/nl/article/zma9xa/noa-pothoven-inspireren-boek-depressie-suicide

It's in Dutch, but Google translate works well.

Please inform yourself of the facts, people, before you judge.

There are lots of personal stories on here but I would ask if there is one parent of a teenage child on here who will come out and say - yep if that was my daughter I would respect her decision and support her.