To think a real friendship can take some honesty

[AliceRR]

I suppose what I’m asking is, is it ever a good idea to tell a friend if they’ve annoyed us or upset us, where we are upset enough that we otherwise might not speak to them for a while?

I have a situation with a friend where I’m a bit upset with her. She seems largely unaware and is talking about meeting up. I don’t want to meet up and wasn’t sure whether to be honest about how I feel (as nicely as I can), make an excuse for not meeting up, just not reply for a bit and maybe I’ll feel better in a few days / weeks or just “suck it up” and be a good friend to her.

I haven’t said what I’m upset about as it’s not a massive thing (it’s more about her not being v supportive) and the AIBU isn’t about what’s happened, it’s about how we handle a situation where we are annoyed or upset by a friend.

I believe that in a good friendship we should be able to be honest but I expect I’m in the minority.

Been there where my closest friend gave me no support at all( in fact was cold and flippant) and everyone else was lovely over a big thing in my life. She apologised in a text a few months later. The damage was done. Made me rethink the whole friendship. Havent seen her for years.

This exactly. I feel like I am rethinking the whole friendship and wondering if it had always been a superficial friendship anyway - we were at each other’s weddings etc and meet up for lunch or dinner every couple of months but we don’t really talk or text much in between - but maybe I’m being harsh.

I think in this instance it's understandable she stayed away, she clearly didn't wish to hurt you with news of her pregnancy.

But bluntness she didn’t have to tell me she was pregnant to send me a text. She’s about 20 w so for much of that time (assuming she didn’t start telling people ‘til after 12 w which is probably what she would do) she wouldn’t have been telling people anyway. She could have just texted to ask how we’re doing or something.

I just found it really odd that I had not heard from her at all in months.

And then I’m her first text she tells me her news when she could’ve just asked how I am (if she cared about that).

The thing is this horrible thing has happened and actually I have realised how blessed we are to have so many friends and family who care about us and have been there for us and she just wasn’t one of them. I can’t help that I feel that way.

I'm so sorry for your loss Alice.

I think anyone who's never been there might struggle to know what the right thing is to do.
So whilst she might not have done the right thing, I'd assume she did the wring thing for the right reasons iyswim. That she was trying to work out what to do, what to say etc, didn't want to intrude or upset you.

Especially if she knew she was pregnant at or shortly after your daughters funeral.

Of course blurting it out like thst without checking how you were was clumsy, but again I'd assume as you previously liked her, that it was foot in mouth, shit I'd said that really bluntly and now I can't take it back rather than her not caring if it upset you.

Suggest meeting up in a few weeks, see how it goes. But if she's otherwise been a good friend I'd forgive her for being clueless and insensitive

I’ve just read your update. I’m so very sorry for the loss of your daughter and can sympathise with how difficult it is being around pregnant women and babies - you sound like you are a very good friend and can’t imagine the inner strength you must have to have helped your friend with her baby so soon after the loss of your own.

This friend should have been more supportive of you and it does sound like she’s more wrapped up in her own thoughts about herself and how she might come across than actually being a friend to you. Some people genuinely can’t handle big emotions in others. I can look back and say I kept my distance from an acquaintance that had been very good to me when they had cancer and only checked in with them once a month or so. I didn’t want to intrude either and I didn’t know what to say to him but that’s no excuse and there is no real excuse for her behaviour either.

You’ve been through a truly horrendous time and I think you need to do what works for you. If it’s letting the friendship drift so be it. I don’t think in these circumstances I’d call her out on the behaviour though.

Reading your last post you have suffered a terrible loss. And in general none of us are wrong about how we feel.

I do think a lot of these situations are to do with not understanding someone else's point of view because we have not up to that point come across it.

I am a bit like your friend, I would have felt I was intruding, I would have assumed you needed space because I would have needed space in your situation, and in your situation I would have wanted to be in touch with my friends when I was ready (though I agree with you, blurting out her news in the text without knowing how you were was not great - but she may have sought advice from a mutual friend?). I feel the way I do about support because I have lived most of my life without any kind of emotional support and the idea of getting or giving emotional support unasked for to another adult other than a partner is a bit foreign to me. Most of my friends are like me. There are lots of people out there not like me who would find it difficult to understand how I feel. If this were the case with her, and you told her honestly how you felt and she explained how she felt, how would you feel then?

Yes, take some time to think. It does sound as though she didn't know what to do and would rather meet up and see you face to face to talk about it all. Context is important here, no matter how you want it not to be (understandably) as it will also be affecting her judgement and emotions around the situation.

I've recently cut contact with a friend I've known for decades because her political/moral views which were once "honest" and at times refreshing have become hardened and nasty. I found every call I would listen to bilge about how superior she was to certain people and it would make me seriously concerned about how other people "really think". I've not spoken to her for several months now and my anxiety is calming down and to be honest I haven't missed the brutal "honesty" she offered.

We all like to have friends for lots of different aspects of our lives. If she is really not a good friend and you won't miss her or wonder how she is (if you have real doubts about whether she is genuinely hoping for the best for you) then I suspect you can walk away and still do it amicably, just have less and less time for her. With my friend she overstepped the mark one time too many and I've just ignored her calls. I did tell her at the time I found her viewpoint to be ridiculous, offensive and small-minded though so she is under no illusions of the reason.

Op, I can see why you think she has handled it badly. It's clearly been uppermost in her mind and she would have likely just been finding out she was pregnant at the time of your sad loss, and probably felt awful about the situation.

This is really difficult for both of you to deal with. The question is, if she wasn't pregnant do you think she would have been in touch? If the answer to this is yes, and it sounds like it might be, then this is about her not knowing how to tell you and not wishing to cause you more pain. It's an incredibly difficult situation and her lying to you by omission isn't much better, she's taken the approach of not wishing to intrude and not wishing to lie either when she did get in touch.

Is there a better way to handle it. God knows. There is no right or wrong way to handle it and I think whatever she did would ultimately have been wrong.

Last week I was supposed to be meeting a friend before a group activity so that we could have a catch up beforehand. Not only did she keep me waiting 40 minutes (she has form for being late/not replying to texts and I've put up with it) but when she did arrive, she virtually ignored me and spent the evening sharing her many dramas and illnesses with the others in our group. Am still livid and know that I cannot be around her at the moment. I know exactly how you feel OP as I'm trying to work out how to play it moving forward.

I have been in your friend’s position and out of fear and just plain “I’ve NO idea what to do/say” I had to distance myself.

I do understand this also but so many of my friends haven’t known what to say (and I know that) but they’ve said something.

This friend in particular I would expect to be able to formulate a text message.

I also see why she didn't want to wade in with her happy pregnancy news.

But did she have to?

She could have texted. I didn’t tell a lot people about my pregnancy til quite late on (after 20 w scan), she was one of the later ones.

She could have texted without mentioning it.

And I really do find it odd her first text to me (a response to my text) said she was worried to tell me she’s pregnant. She could have asked how I am and if I told her I was having a phase of crying all day every day (for example), or couldn’t handle pregnant women everywhere, it might have occurred to her not to tell me yet. I just find it really contradictory that she thought it was going to upset me but told me anyway without asking how I’m doing. She only really needed to tell me before we meet up (if she was that worried).

Honestly, it’s the cowardly thing to do but now, if I have a problem I just ghost.

I was ghosted once. She was my best friend at uni and we were still friends after uni as we live near each other but one day she just didn’t text me again. I still think about it. I’d rather she told me what was wrong but I know everyone is different.

We don’t really have mutual friends. Well we do as we’re part of a group but we have a particular friendship outside the group (and the group doesn’t really get together these days)

Be careful because whatever you do she’s probably going to say you couldn’t handle her news and were jealous/judgemental/whatever story she will create

She’s not the type who would talk about me that way to people but she might think this. I think she knows she should have been in touch.

I do this too but agree it’s probably not the healthiest thing to do. I hate confrontation and general bad feeling so would rather avoid that at all costs.

So sorry for your loss OP.

I must admit that I think knowing the context of everything now is a bit easier to make comment. I feel like your friend actually had the best intentions but was nervous and just didn't know how to deal with it. Not everyone knows how to talk about these things or approach people. I agree she has probably gone the wrong way about it but I don't think it's intentionally unsupportive, it's a difficult situation. Now she knows it's not going to upset you etc, I'd meet and see if she asks after you in more depth whilst you're there. If not, then I would distance yourself a bit but I'd still give her a chance.

I think op you've been through an incredibly harrowing time, and you're grieving, and hurt, and trying to come to terms with your loss.

It's so much easier for someone who isn't newly pregnant, or someone who isn't pregnant to be there, it's so very much more complicated for someone who is and doesn't wish to hurt you or lie to you.

I strongly suspect she was trying to not cause you further pain here.

I think I'd explain to her that you understand it's hard to know what to do for the best, but you don't feel ready to meet up yet. And that's ok, the emotions of sitting with her due to her pregnancy will be hard. And you don't need to put youtself through it. Just take some time for you right now. This is just a set of circumstances that is Incredibly difficult to deal with,

Firstly I am so very sorry for your loss. I lost a much wanted son at 26 weeks into pregnancy, and it's something I'd never wish on anyone.

Secondly, it's a time in your life when you find out who your real friends are. I had a work colleague that I didn't see much but who rang me as soon as she heard, and literally turned up on the doorstep with a massive bunch of flowers and said "mate, I literally just don't know what the fuck to say" and she was one of the few people who made an effort. People I'd known for years and that I thought were good friends just backed away.

It really changed how I saw a lot of people tbh. And changed how I see life.

Perhaps you've just had a bit of an epiphany

you sound like you are a very good friend and can’t imagine the inner strength you must have to have helped your friend with her baby so soon after the loss of your own.

You are kind. I think the thing is it was important to me to be there for my friend despite what I was dealing with, which is why I think I expect more of this other friend, IYSWIM?

But I’m sure I expect too much sometimes and right now I am a little bit fragile I suppose.

This friend should have been more supportive of you and it does sound like she’s more wrapped up in her own thoughts about herself and how she might come across than actually being a friend to you. Some people genuinely can’t handle big emotions in others.

I think she is wrapped up in her own thoughts and I can understand why but it doesn’t make me want to see her.

And the thing is I’m very “normal” with my friends. I don’t sit and cry about my baby. I still do that when I’m alone or with my husband. I don’t really talk about her unless I think the other person is comfortable with it or they ask.

It is interesting really as I have a few good friends and they have all been so different with me. I have one who acts like it hasn’t happened but I still appreciate her texts and have met up with her, I have a couple who will text and ask how I am (not every day, maybe once a fortnight) and have been to see me and we’ve met up, I’ve got friends who don’t know what to say but text me about unrelated things and I know that’s their way of keeping in touch and letting me know they’re there.

I do get that people don’t know what to say and, sadly, it’s often only when you’ve been through something like this yourself that you maybe do have a better idea of how to help support other people (but even then everyone is different).

I just can’t help I feel a bit let down by her.

I agree with you, blurting out her news in the text without knowing how you were was not great - but she may have sought advice from a mutual friend?

No, none of our mutual friends are close friends and I don’t think any of them would even know what has happened, as I see them so infrequently.

If she's now 20 weeks then she was possibly pregnant when your LO died.

I wonder if hearing your news made her incredibly anxious about being pregnant - you know there is a risk of such things happening but for it to happen to a close friend brings it closer to home. It could be that by keeping you at a distance was the only way she could cope.

Plus there could be other things going on for her that you don't know about.

Thanks everyone for the replies

I had a work colleague that I didn't see much but who rang me as soon as she heard, and literally turned up on the doorstep with a massive bunch of flowers and said "mate, I literally just don't know what the fuck to say"

See that’s so lovely. It actually made me tear up as I am so touched by the support that we have had 🙈😂🙈

There is a woman I used to work with. I didn’t get on with her that well and wouldn’t have considered her a friend but she has been texting me at least once a week to ask how I am, if I want to chat then to let her know, to let her know if I want to meet up or whatever. Her first text even said she knows we’re not best friends or anything but she’s here.

Not only did she keep me waiting 40 minutes (she has form for being late/not replying to texts and I've put up with it) but when she did arrive, she virtually ignored me and spent the evening sharing her many dramas and illnesses with the others in our group

Oh gosh I would be annoyed at that too!

I don’t know if my friend would be different if she were not pregnant. I kind of feel like she would have been the same.

I am in two minds now. On the one hand I know she must be incredibly happy and she’s focussed on her so I should leave her to do that. When I was pregnant with my daughter I was genuinely the happiest I’ve ever been. I don’t want to rain on her parade really. On the other hand I do feel like maybe I should just let it go and give her a chance because life is short and I should just be the best friend that I can be.

Hi
I am so sorry that your baby girl was stillborn.
I am old now and so have experienced losses, but I am very much afraid that I would not have coped well with the situation your friend found herself in.
She knows she messed up. It is up to you if you can find a way back to the friendship. But if you can’t, it won’t be ghosting, she will know why. I think she probably feels dreadful, and will feel even worse after her child is born, not that any of that is your responsibility.
I stopped all contact with my best friend 18 months ago. She was absolutely foul to me when I was dealing with a huge change in my circumstances. I tried not to be angry and accept that she must have had her own issues, but my feelings spilled out when I saw another of her friends recently.
My former friend has now written to me and apologised, which is closure at least, but I do not know how to respond. I miss her dreadfully, but don’t know if I could ever trust her.
So I am surprised to find my self rooting for your friendship!
I hope you get everything you wish for in your life. You sound lovely to me.

Plus there could be other things going on for her that you don't know about.

Absolutely but the fact is she’s so focussed on her that she hasn’t been a friend to me at what has been the most difficult thing I’ve ever had to deal with. There are “things going on with me” that she does know about!

🤷🏻‍♀️

I have another friend, the only other friend who I would say has been a rubbish friend, who stopped getting in touch around March last year. She cancelled a meeting up and just didn’t reply to my texts much. I had to send two texts before I’d get a reply. I saw her a month or so ago after I told her I hat had happened. With her it was slightly different but I didn’t know whether she had things going on that I didn’t know about or just didn’t want to be friends or I’d upset her. I sent her texts every so often as I didn’t know if she needed one. I met up with her a month or so ago and she told me she’d been feeling down about some things and it seemed to me she seemed depressed. I texted her again after that as I knew she was having a hard time too, in a different way... having a hard time doesn’t always mean you can’t be there for other people having a hard time and if others don’t know they can only take a view based on what you know.

So sorry for your loss . In no way is this a small thing. It's a real test of friendship.

You talk about having high standards of friendship and I think this is a good thing. It'd be a problem if you had no friends and were lonely, but you do and you aren't.

Her behaviour has very clearly shown that she doesn't have the same view of your friendship that you do, and I would also be very hurt.

I think she knows the problem, she said so in her text and you've also gently hinted. She'd be quite thick skinned not to realise, both scenarios = a poor friend.

I personally wouldn't bother with the friendship. You don't need to give her an explicit reason. Just let it fade away. If she's that bothered she'll make an effort and you could bring it up then. But by the sounds of it you have plenty of great support and she won't really be missed.

Very sad all round. I'm so sorry you've had to deal with all of this.

She knows she messed up. It is up to you if you can find a way back to the friendship

Thank you. I think you are right. Maybe you could take it slowly with your friend - meet her for lunch or something? You don’t have to jump back in headfirst to being the best of friends.

The thing is I know I am overly emotional at the moment and I know this is a complicated situation and really neither of us is being unreasonable.

I was asking about being honest with friends as this (and something I heard on a podcast yesterday) made me think about that but I am pleased I shared my particular problem as I have found all of your kind and thoughtful replies very helpful

I don’t think your friend has done anything wrong.
Just because your other friends found something to say doesn’t mean that everyone can.
It sounds to me like she was worried, stressed and nervous about the whole thing.

You’re being too harsh on her. Not everyone can do the whole ‘supportive’ thing, it doesn’t mean those people don’t care.

Also, a lot of those supportive people tend to just be in it for the drama aspect and not because they actually sincerely care.

If most people would think your issue is small, could you comprehend that she may think the same way and not think it's something that requires severe support and hand-holding?

You have said your standards are high, I'm not even sure what that means but perhaps you may be unreasonable here.

Overall we should be honest with those we care about, but there are times where we should let things go too and not make them become a big thing.

OOPS, cross posted! Will read all your updates now! This thread moved quick.

You’re being too harsh on her. Not everyone can do the whole ‘supportive’ thing, it doesn’t mean those people don’t care.

Maybe. I’ve said I understand people don’t know what to say etc but I can’t help I feel let down and (especially as I’m not getting out and socialising that much) I’m more likely to spend that time with a friend who has shown they care. It is difficult.

I'm sorry as well for your loss, that's absolutely massive and really difficult.
I think she could have at least either phoned or sent a message to say she was thinking of you and your partner and to get in touch when your ready etc.
Some people though cannot handle other peoples pain and upset, they just don't know what to do or say etc. To me it sounds like she doesn't have the capacity to handle it etc.
I'd leave it for the time being I think with her and concentrate on yourself/ your partner and family and friends who have been there for you.I'd think about it much later on, she can wait.

I'm sorry for your loss, OP. I have no words, I cannot even begin to imagine what that was like. My best wishes to you and your family. I hope there are better days to come for you all.