Am I a fishwife?

[sosig]

I can’t decide who’s wrong. Can you help me by calling it please?

Dh runs a very new but successful gas business. The success is based purely on hard work and a good reputation. Long term aim was to also get into property, flipping or renting. 12 months ago he finds a deal, a semi that needs refurbish with a pot with outline permission. He thinks he can do the house refurb and then selling to break even to leave him with the building plot which he’d own outright. He needed a 12 month bridge as he didn’t have necessary funds and his parents put up their home as guarantee. I begged my dh not to go ahead as I thought the risk was too great. I wanted him to have money behind him before he did property.

So 12 months on massive over spend on house but the house has been done to a fantastic standard and sells for 15% more than expected. The plot hasn’t gone well as it’s small and architect did a poor job. Outline permission has expired on the plot. Dh has to fund over spend rinsed the business of all the cash and basically we’re broke. Luckily I inherited a large some of money. However I’m really pissed off he’s had to have 30k from my inheritance just to keep business afloat. He promised me he wouldn’t need any money from the business to fund the property.

So he owes me 30k and another creditor 12k. The house has paid back the bridge. So my problem is basically I feel I’ve ended up paying for him playing at property. His attitude is that it’s been a success and we’re married so the inheritance is our money and he’d support me if the roles were reversed so I should support him. He’s now found another good deal that he wants to do and on paper is does look very good - however again I’ve begged him to get straight financially before he does anymore deals. He says the only way to get straight is to do another deal. He’s very open about not feeling guilty about the first project and puts it down to a learning experience. I should also add that he has had businesses before which failed and the fall out there was in excess of 30k which family had to pay.

Aibu? I’m starting to think dh is devoid of a conscience or guilt.

I'd be majorly pissed off too.

If you're funding his business ventures you should either be a shareholder or director of the business.

I’m not sure why you think any of this makes you a fishwife?!

Did you have a written loan agreement for the 30k?

I wouldn’t have stayed with him after he took such big risks and risked his DPs’ house for a speculative venture.

I would only have bailed him out with inheritance if not doing so would have affected his parents’ situation and/or my own credit status.(sounds like this was the case).

I wouldn’t remain financially linked with him given his recent history and attitudes.

Thank you for your replies. I'm only funding because his business bank a/c was empty due to doing up this property. We'd have been homeless if I hadn't got my inheritance.

So why are you a fishwife? The only meaning of a fishwife I know is a woman who's gobby, sweary and is very loud probably with a fag hanging out her mouth.

I feel like a fish wife because I can't let it go. I could forgive the first property but wanting to go ahead with the second property as a way of "paying me back" makes me think I'm going mad because to me that's having the shiniest brass neck ever!

We'd have been homeless if I hadn't got my inheritance.

This is a terrifying prospect; that someone you're in a relationship with could be so reckless. I don't think I'd be willing to fund any other kind of move or risk, and I don't think I'd be willing to remain in a relationship with someone so blasé about money.

So I have had to bail out my DH in the past as well. Like yours my DH got overoptemistic and ended up in a lot of debt. It took him a long time to accept that he was an idiot but he got over it and has gone off and financially educated himself and seems (fingers crossed) to be better. But I had to force it. I lectured him. I left him briefly. I made it very clear to him that I wasn’t his mother and wouldn’t tolerate this. My advice to you would be to put that money on trust for your children where he can’t get to it. People like this are used to having a safety net and will only make the effort to make smart decisions if you force them to.

Sounds like there's a pretty good chance he'll overspend on this next house too. And then where will you be?

Where have you got the idea from that you should put a man’s wishes before your own, and financial and housing security?

“Letting it go” would be irrational. The financially rational thing to do would be to refuse to bankroll the new venture and end the relationship if he continues.

I wouldn't put up with him guilting you into using anymore inheritance. The money was left to you, not him and yes as a family its normal to have it as family money/savings But it was given to you and if you don't want to see it disappear down a black hole then it is your decision and not his to berate you about.
You need to tell him to sort his finances out so you are both stable again. There will always be property to flip later there is no rush.

"I should also add that he has had businesses before which failed and the fall out there was in excess of 30k which family had to pay."

So your husband is one of those 'serial entrepreneurs' whose optimism vastly outweighs their skills or experience. How many more ventures are you and his family going to sink money into before you accept he's basically a high class gambling addict?

I hope your saving are in an account he can't access.

“I should also add that he has had businesses before which failed and the fall out there was in excess of 30k which family had to pay.“

I think some of the arguments he has put forward are ok, but this bit is a problem.

Keep your finances separate. My dh is like this. Has made masses of money but has lost masses as well. I work and categorically refuse to be implicated in any way. He fails to worry, just jumps in and its hair raising at times. But l am not a fishwife but l do refuse to have any of my money involved. I have my own savings which are a great security for me. Do not make excuses.
A great sentence to use is..lm sure you will work it out...and walk off.
I have to admit my dh made enough money to put kids through college..in lreland that was about 200, 000 but there were a lot of crazy moments on the way. I am not that way inclined so refuse to be involved.
Write it out so he cant come back to haunt you...also make sure he contributes his share of household expenses from his gas business.
And even if you are a fishwife..so what!!! Do not be intimidated by that remark. Be confident in your own gut reaction to the whole situation.

So.

Is this a limited company? You use the term business, is he buying and selling through a limited company?

If so you can lend money at an agreed interest rate. There is risk if it folds.

How does the gas business link?

If he is just doing it as a hobby then it isn't a business is it?

I'd be majorly pissed off. He has gambled with his family's, and particularly your, future security. Poor business planning and execution. I wouldn't have allowed him to take the money without having a serious look at his business plan.

Hiya,

I am the husband 😊

Thankyou all for your constructive criticism, its helpful to get an outside point of view.

I would like to clarify a couple of points. The deal I am looking to do now links directly to the first one.
The idea of the first deal was to break even on the house refurb and end up with a plot of land that has not cost anything in principle.
I admit things didnt go to plan and there was an overspend and some poor managment from myself.

The plot of land I am now left with also struggled to get full planning despite it already having outline - So its essentially not worth very much now. The only way to make it worth something (and be able to pay back the money borrowed) is to do a deal on next door and add their bit of land to mine to make it bigger and get planning a This is the new deal I want to do.

Its not like im off somewhere else trying to buy another house entirely.

I admit there are things I have done very badly and I have failed in the past at a couple of ventures. I also have a high attitude to risk, which has got me in trouble sometimes but has also come good for me at others

I was also given the ultimatum of choose the property deal or the relationship and chose the relationship. I have stopped trying to do the deal.
However im still in trouble because I would do the deal if I was allowed to, so I havnt learnt my lesson or thought of the consequences etc.

I would also like to add that currently and previous to the inheritance my gas business funds all of our outgoings and lifestyle. We have very high amount of bills all of which are paid by the gas business and she does not have to work. She is a lady of luxuary during the day 😊

Having said that she did fund us before I started the gas business as well as paying for me to take the gas course after a previous failed business - So we are pretty evenly matched.

I will be happy to read more points of view - thank you

I would also like to add that the drive behind me trying to do property deals and run my own business etc is to have a better quality of life for both of us. I want to be able to do anything we dream of with no financial worries. The wealth that is required to do that you cant gain from being in a safe 9-5pm job in my opinion.

We both enjoy the finer things in life and have expensive tastes and hobbies.

Fine to take risks with your own money.

Not fine with your parents’ home, or the one you share with your wife.

Your reasons to continue with your venture sound like sunk costs fallacy.

You can’t afford it without your wife’s funds.

Given your past, she’d be very unwise to let you spend her money in this way.

But its my money thats funding our current lifestyle and bills?

She cant afford to not have a job without my funds? Surely in a marriage you work together? Thats the point?

Because rest assured if I had made £50k on the first deal as was planned we would be spending it together - I wouldnt be keeping it all to myself??

The plot of land I am now left with also struggled to get full planning despite it already having outline - So its essentially not worth very much now. The only way to make it worth something (and be able to pay back the money borrowed) is to do a deal on next door and add their bit of land to mine to make it bigger and get planning a This is the new deal I want to do

This sounds very high risk. I know you feel emotionally committed to this plot of land and making it "come good" but ask yourself honestly if this is a deal you would do if you had the choice, ie: if you were coming to this fresh, do you think buying this piece of land plus the neighbours piece of land and combining them would make sound financial sense?

How certain are you that you will be able to get planning permission on the combined plot? What is your plan if you need to meet further expenses or if you lose more money? If it is "my wife will bail me out, just like she did before, and just like my parents did before that" then...you are not a businessman.

She cant afford to not have a job without my funds? Surely in a marriage you work together? Thats the point?

Your wife is saying "I am not comfortable risking any more of our capital in this venture." Which is fair enough - she knows you well, has seen more than one of your businesses fail, and has a realistic idea of your strengths and weaknesses. You are emotionally very invested in this succeeding and I don't think you are being rational.

You can't demand endless cheerleading and support for foolhardy business ideas just because "we're married"

Honestly, you should leave your parents' home alone - it's disgraceful you asked for that. I hope you've repaid them.

I also think that inheritance shouldn't be used unless your wife wants it to be used - that should be her decision.

You don't seem to be a good business person in lots of ways - you like to take a gamble and you should only do that with your own money.